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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Carbon Vs Xenon (Page 5)

 
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Author Topic: Carbon Vs Xenon
Jim Spohn
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 04-07-2004 11:42 AM      Profile for Jim Spohn   Email Jim Spohn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert... I'm running 11mm X 20" high intensity positives with 11/32" negatives in an RCA "Brite-Arc" made by Ashcraft. This is a water cooled lamp with the carbons being rotated by a ratchet rather than the usual chain drive. We push this lamp gently, on projector #1, to match the light of an Ashcraft Suprex being pushed hard on #2. Amaisingly the intensity and color of the light matches fairly well. Change-overs are seemless. I actually have two of each lamp, but by running one of each, I can burn almost any carbons that I can get my hands on!! ... Jim

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William H. Ward
Film Handler

Posts: 27
From: SAn Antonio, Texas
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 04-20-2004 04:26 PM      Profile for William H. Ward   Email William H. Ward   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me ADD my 2 cents worth of BS on this subject. Although I am now retired, my love for the carbon-arc still lives on. There are no theatres in my town that use them. I'll drive miles just to watch a pair of carbon-arc searchlights work the skys. I've worked in booths (many) for 25 years on all kinds of carbon arc projection lamps. You cannot beat them for their smell, sound, drama and light output. They did have to be maintained to have trouble free operation. When xenon first begin to emerge, I remember some company had put together a lamp burning 11mm positive carbons and had a carbon magazine on the side which fed a new one to the lamp for continous burn. I don't know about the negative carbon.
xenon just overtook everything. You cannot beat a well trimmed carbon-arc projection lamp burning its'trim at the maximum amperage for that trim and most important, fed from a good GENERATOR. The arc is very smooth, quite as a burning candle and the generator supplies a constant DC voltage which does not vary with changes in the house AC voltage.
Here is some more. I would like to see how a projectionist burns an 11mm positive carbon at 60 amps. as mentioned in these replies. Erratic feeding, very small if any crater formation and most important, no gas ball present. Your carbon life would be good, but your light terrible and a blue in color. I will always be a carbon guy to the very end. Frankly, I do not see how the industry can go back in technology usage. Zenon is here to stay whether we like it or not. The very best lamps ever made was the Peerless Magnarc and the Ashcraft Super corelight. Anyone ever work the the Strong Jet-arc? Massive, carbon eaters, lots of light output, noisy, 21" reflector and it won the Academy Award for technical achievment in the late 60's. I don't feel zenon will top that. Sorry some of you professionals missed this era.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-20-2004 11:44 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is anybody open 365 days a year 2 or more shows per day still using carbons? If you are, where are you getting carbons? We ditched the Magnarcs primarily because the supply was erratic at best and the quality was terrible. The newest Marbles went up and down in brightness, sputtered, hissed, one even popped so forcefully that it blew the arc out. I thought they were damp so I took them home & put 'em in the oven at 150F for 3 hrs. No good, they were just crap.

Why would anybody need a tech to adjust Magnarcs, it takes only a few minutes once they are hot, any only a few minutes more to learn how to do it.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 04-20-2004 11:49 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recently got some National Carbons from Robert Film Service in Montreal. I haven't used them yet, but I don't imagine I'll have any problems with them.

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-21-2004 01:34 AM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
So Bill, do you still have those Magnarcs laying around collecting dust? If so, I'd be interested in them....email me please.

>>> Phil

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Jim Spohn
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 04-21-2004 10:04 AM      Profile for Jim Spohn   Email Jim Spohn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
William, We burn 11mm positives at 60 amps. To get the feed correct I had to put a resistor in series with the fuse for the motor. Our crater is good and complete with a nice plasma field. Several members from this forum have been to my theatre and will tell you that our light isn't blue at all (actually it is first class). I have been burning carbons for over 40 years and consider myself to be compident and knowledgeable, I bought an entire theatre just so I could run my carbon-arc equipment. If 60 amps didn't give us good light, we would increase it(DUH). We run at 60 amps because it works not to save carbons. I have no main office or manager to answer to. If it didn't work we wouldn't do it. Our theatre is a specialty house not open to the public for regular showings, I do screenings of recent releases for friends and we do silent movies with a Wurlitzer pipe organ for different groups. Please, if you enjoy running a change-over booth as much as I do, feel free to come operate the booth. Pictures of the booth can be seen from the front page of this forum under "Granada Theatre Bakersfiled 10-08-03. Even our 16mm projector is carbon-arc. ... Jim

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-21-2004 03:21 PM      Profile for John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Email John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill Enos wrote:

"Why would anybody need a tech to adjust Magnarcs, it takes only a few minutes once they are hot, any only a few minutes more to learn how to do it."

I would, Bill. Because:

1. I have not run arcs for over thirty years.

2. My experience was with Ashcrafts. I only ran Magnars a few times as a relief operator.

3. The Peerless J's at the Count Basie Theatre had not been operational for a number of years, and needed some major attention beyond my area of expertise.

I hope that I will never become too old, too smart, or too proud not to call for assistance when I need it.

Incidently, we must have done something right. New Line was so pleased with our presentation of their private sneak of Laws of Attraction that they want us to do another one for The Notebook.

I hope this answers your question/statement.

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 04-21-2004 03:35 PM      Profile for Christian Appelt   Email Christian Appelt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What about the carbons from India, I believe that Monee still makes arc lamps, so there should be supply for them. Did anybody try those?

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 04-21-2004 07:37 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Those carbons aren't great, but they work. It's really hit and miss with them.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-21-2004 11:49 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There was a thread a while back about the Indian carbons, Schultz is the name.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 04-22-2004 01:16 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am sorry to ask a basic qustion but..
Average life of a cinema xenon arc lamp at 1kW, 3kW and 7kW
What is the cost of bulbs at those energies if you are in a position to get a decent price?

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-22-2004 03:13 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1 KW = 3,000 Hours
2 KW = 2,000 Hours $400 (I get about a year out of these.)
3 KW = 1,200 Hours $600 (I go through 3 per year in one machine.)
4 KW = 1,000 Hours
5 KW = 800 Hours
7 KW = 800 Hours

I run each machine about 3,000 hours per year with 4/5 shows per day, 365 days per year.

So a 2K costs me about 14-cents per hour. A 3K costs me 50-cents per hour.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 04-22-2004 03:46 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Ian.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-24-2004 07:41 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only problem when figuring cost, the first time a xenon blows up and takes a miror and/or electronics with it, the costs get way screwed up. Carbons never took out a $1000 mirror.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-24-2004 07:52 AM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True, carbons never shattered a mirror, but with the money we've not spent on carbons, we could buy a stack of mirrors and still have several thousand dollars left over.

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