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Topic: CIR Splicers

Dan Spence
Film Handler

Posts: 9
From: Gettysburg, PA, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02-12-2002 04:09 AM

Ken,
I see you're using frame to frame splicing tape. I've just received some with my last supply order and will begin using it in a week or so. Any idea who makes it? And how well does it perform?

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-12-2002 04:24 AM

Personally I can't really split hairs between the Neumade and the CIR. I find the CIR easier to use, but that's what I started with so I'm used to. I must strongly disagree with comments made about the Strong splicer (no pun intended!). The best use I can find for those is for holding open doors. A place I installed bought those, everyone of them didn't cut the tape accurately to the edges of the film, which caused it to pick up dirt, and worse still caused the film to jump out of any flanged guide roller (Cat 701). They borrowed a Neumade from another theatre in the chain and the problem went away. The other theatre wanted the Neumade back so they bought a bunch of CIR splicers and have no further problems. It was going to be more hassle than it was worth to send the Strong splicers back to the US, so as doorstops they stay!

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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-12-2002 04:33 AM

Oops! My Bad!

I didn't mean to mean to take at shot at Italians, Antonio. I have just had maintenance problems with those CIR splicers. Let the flames head my way for being a bad Film-Tech member.

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Jonas Heijkenskjold
Film Handler

Posts: 14
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 02-12-2002 05:59 AM

Ken, in my opinion, you´re better off with the ones that don´t spring the cutter blade back up. I´ve come across several CIR´s with that spring, wich have, if you don´t pay attention, the cutter blade going down along with the handle when cutting the tape, (of course from getting beaten in the past), resulting in a new cut in the print.

The base plate isn´t attached to a screw hole, its attached to the two middle screws going through the perforation plate.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-12-2002 07:40 AM

Christopher,

I know, I was kidding... I would like to have a neumade too...

I have instead a CIR and a "Cinemeccancia" as you in USA call our Italian coffee machines...

Bye
Antonio

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 02-12-2002 11:07 AM

If they're in perfect condition CIR joiners can make good splices. But I find that the U-blades and perforating blocks tend to wear out very quickly and you're forever having to strip the base plate to get the sticky tape debris out from where the teeth have gone through the perforations in the film.

In other words, they're expensive and time-consuming to maintain, and if you don't do it they start leaving ragged edges and failing to go through the perforations properly.

To be honest I prefer cement splices. It might take a little longer to do them, but if they're well made, they're less visible on the screen than tape joins. But of course you can't cement join polyester.

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 02-12-2002 06:49 PM

PETE: I have had problems too with a splice that is a tiny bit wider than the film jumping off of the cat 701's rollers. I just took a dremel hand tool and tapered out the inside edges of the rollers a little bit then sanded them smooth. No more problems.

Some might say that this is a silly way to fix a problem that is only a problem due to something else (improperly shearing splicer blades), but I have seen this problem even with splicers that are cutting properly. The roller flanges on the 701's have a problem: they are perfectly the size of the film....then need to be a little wider and there is absolutely no harm or disadvantage in making them so.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-12-2002 07:00 PM

According to the CIR book you should not clean out the perfhole of the plate as they grab the punch out from the next splice
Also there is supposed to be 2 layers of tape across the block as well
As I have said almost every neg cutter that uses tape uses a CIR and up here they are the norm in theatres as well and they give stirling service.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-12-2002 07:08 PM

That's stupid to have to keep 2 layers of splicing tape permanently laid across the block. I also suspect they are the norm where you are because they are cheap, not because of quality. Either that or people up north aren't too picky.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-12-2002 07:14 PM

I never say it is stupid if that provides reliable results and I usually don't question the designer why they did something
Also the CIR is substantially more money in canada than the neumade and definitly more than the asian white knock off piece of crap
Also I regretably have to deal with a neumade one for assembling large format splices with the saw tooth cutter and that is positvly the worse piece of engineered crap i have seen. I have yet to find two that have matching saw cuts
CIR rules

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-12-2002 07:30 PM

Gordon, I'm totally schlocked (Ooops! and shocked!) that you are using that POS saw-tooth thingie! Where's the Metric? It IS the best!

>>> Phil

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-12-2002 07:34 PM

I assemble all complete prints with the metric (that I calibrate myself)
But trailors use tape since they change them nowdays in large format almost as much as the multiplexes do 35mm
I wish CIR made the tape unit

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-12-2002 09:28 PM

Jonas, thanks for the tip on the base plate. I can't picture how it works. Do you have pics? Yes, I like the cutters that don't spring back up. That seems dumb.

Leo, I clean my splicers once a month. I do not find it too expensive or time consuming, and it is well worth it.

Gord, what CIR book? Is there actually a manual for this thing? If so, how can I get one?

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 02-13-2002 04:58 AM

Well maybe CIR spares are cheaper in the US. Over here a perforating block costs around £50 and a U-blade £20. Both wear out pretty quickly in my experience.

Gordon: I know about the two layers of tape on the base plate, but I had no idea that CIR recommend never cleaning out the perf holes in the base casting, and I must admit I don't like that prospect. Eventually they'd get packed with adhesive which would start to come off on the perforating teeth and contaminate the film. I've seen this happen on joiners which had never been cleaned in ages.

And as for the idea of using tape joiners of any sort to cut negatives (let alone CIR ones), yikes! Surely the edges of the tape would be clearly visible on the dupe (unless it was made by wet gate printing)?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-13-2002 07:10 AM

Another issue with using tape splices on printing originals (e.g., negatives) is that the solvents used for ultrasonic cleaning will dissolve the adhesive in the tape, possibly transferring a sticky "goo" to adjacent laps:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/hse/solvent.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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