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Author Topic: "Spirit Of America" Trailer
Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 03-16-2002 10:34 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank,

Although, yes, I am too young to remember what you are talking about, I think you are being a little extreme. I would tend to agree with that woman, but that's just my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right? If someone complained about my preshow programming (not that I'm the one who makes the programming choices, it's all corporate), I certainly wouldn't ban that person from my theater.

------------------
This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 03-16-2002 11:57 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
datkin said: "I don't know how anyone can watch the video on film commercials. Deluxe kinescopes for all!"

Some of those TV commercials printed on 35mm look absolutely awful. Dreadfully bad. What are they thinking?? I guess all they care about is the number of "impressions" the ad makes, favorable or not.


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-16-2002 01:03 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is that a literal question, Dave? ("What are they thinking?)

The answer is clear. They perceive a market in showing their advertising in theatres, and have found a cost-effective way to do it; and they probably choose the cheapest. Why pay thousands of dollars a minute for last film recording when you can get a 16mm transfer with a kinescope (O($60)/minute), and then blow it up to 35mm ($0.30/foot)?

While discriminating individuals will notice, a) The average moviegoer just isnt' discriminating. Sad, but true. b) Just because the quality looks low doesn't mean that the advertising won't be effective. This very thread summons in my head that stupid Sony VAIO theme from the 35mm ad with the people jumping into the sky....

I plattered up the ECO shorts and watched them all last night. I think they're nice and tasteful, but unfortunately they don't have quite the "hook" of a good short (no real exciting drama or comic humor, etc.). I'd grade them a 6 on a 1-10 scale. But they're certainly good enough to show and we'll throw them in when we have some free spots.

--jhawk

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-16-2002 02:47 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to throw in one extra point on those poor quality blowups...some theaters start the show, the projectionist checks framing and focus and then walks away, never to return. If the first thing to hit the screen is one of those low resolution video blowups, that can easily damage the entire presentation's focus (and framing too, since many times those are printed out of frame). I know many theaters use timers and leave the booth lighting on next to the projector for precisely this reason. Sometime during the trailers, the projectionist sees the light on and projector running (signifying "check focus"). He goes over and checks things during an actual preview and then turns off the light. Now of course the projectionist should return randomly during the movie to keep checking on things, but at least if he forgets or is too busy building 8 new movies for the complex the feature should play well. It's an interesting approach.

Frank, I agree with you that we are bombarding our customers with tasteless garbage before our presentations these days, but adding newsreels, cartoons, short subjects and whatever else we can add is just too much. I agree with the woman. While things like that were commonplace a long, long time ago and would still be a pleasant addition to a reportory type of theater, in today's times I agree that they are inappropriate for a commercial movie theater.


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-17-2002 11:05 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have done a number of video commercials specifically for 35mm conversion. There are a couple of basic rules to follow (no swish pans) but I find that the conversion house plays a major role.

These days I send all of my video-to-film jobs to Cinema Concepts in Atlanta. They're primarily an animation house (policy trailers) so they're really set up to work in very high resolutions. I've been very happy with the results. They've even re-done some of the older promos we used to run and so there's some basis for comparison.

I can safely say that the techs and the lab will help or hurt.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 03-17-2002 01:04 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In general, the audio and video quality ("production values") of many TV commercials seems to be quite high. Why would an advertiser not want to apply the same high standard of production values to their commercials showing in theaters, which is a venue where a poor-quality production will stand out in comparison to the rest of the presentation (trailers and the feature). Of course we all know the answer: Low cost, and a very tightly-targeted audience. Bah.

The best-quality TV commercial shown in theaters I can recall recently is the Mountain Dew one with the alien spaceship being piloted by the Dew-drinkers ("I told you not to let them drive"). That one looked and sounded pretty good. Many other commercials really look and sound awful though...

I agree with Brad's comments about commercial theaters and pre-show programming. At a first-run theater, I want (even enjoy) a few trailers and hopefully a sound snipe (though around here they rarely do sound snipes any more), then move on into the feature.

Memo to self: In the future, when asking a rhetorical question in a public forum, be sure to provide your own response to said question.


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-17-2002 04:01 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I agree -- our persentation style would not be practical in a commercial setting. It is an easy way for the arthouse to make a mark in our nitch market -- all those little extras create a style that is distinctive and sets us apart from the multiplexes.

In fact, we are GLAD they put crappy looking slides on the screen and play that track with the "DJ" babbling incessantly in attempt at humor. We are glad their concessionares are rude or simply have that glazed eye look, like deer caught in headlights. We are glad they put low res video ads before their main feature -- sets a tone as to the kind of attention to detail the theatre ascribes to. We are glad they let patrons walk in to see a naked screen staring back at them --it allows us to be impressive with our Grand Curtain.

And Ken L., just for the record, of course we didn't ban her from the theatre (we certainly couldn't afford THAT lawsuit); naturally it was said it tongue-in-cheek, but I agree with you -- for those who are not particularlly taken with our style of presentation, we are not about to alienate them as customers and we do give three times for all our shows: the time the doors open and the Preshow music program starts (they get to drop suggestions in a box in the lobby as to what music they would like to hear programmed on our 6 Channel Total Surround MegaSound [tm] system) -- the start-time of what we call the "Cartoon and Attraction Reel" AND finally, the start-time of the actual feature. Patrons are free to come in whenever they wish.

And I have a little confession to make.... One of the reasons I love running cartoons and stuff before the feature, aside from the fact that my audience loves it, is also for showmanship as well -- with a cartoon, I can go from 1.37 to either flat wide screen or scope. It
is VERY dramatic and there isn't a show where you don't hear the audience wooing and ahhing when it changes. Why bother with ANY wide screen process at all if the audience isn't aware that they are indeed seeing a film in wide screen? We have a few multiplexes in Brooklyn where there is only ONE screen size -- everything is run in 2:1 -- both Scope and flat. The only way you know which is which is by....well, you know. What's the stupidity behind that?!

Sometimes exhibitors deserve that chapter 11 thing.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-17-2002 04:38 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually I think it would be a good idea to bring back shorts and cartoons to comercial theatre experience. It is no more involved than adding all the comercials and garbage at the beginning of the presentation anyway
Until Cineplex took over Canadian Odeon theatres they still had cartoons and shorts before most programs in there multiplexes

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-17-2002 04:57 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, in fairness, it's more involved if you have non-35mm shorts, it can sure be a pain. This is the case with 16mm shorts, like the one we showed last night, where the film broke as the projector was starting up...

--jhawk

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-18-2002 01:10 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem with doing the cartoon/attraction reel in a multiplex/platter operation is that the level of automation in the average multiplex is not universal. Most booths will not have the necessary lens and aperture changing equipment that it would require. My guess is that booking for mulitplexes is most efficient when programs are the same from house to house, screen to screen. Corporate head offices would probably look pretty unfavorably on having to adjust packaging programs specifically for which screens have automation and which don't.

Does anyone use lens and aperture changers on their projectors? How fast can these thing actually change from one to the other? And can you set it up for different flat ARs? Obviously lens turrets are easy, but what about the plates? Can you have a scope plates plus a variety of spherical cropped plates?


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-18-2002 02:19 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John: In my experience, most 16mm film breaks on start-up were caused either by a loop being lost due to the feed-out sprocket pulling the film before the gate claw had advanced it, or by a 6,000 foot take up spool pulling too hard and either breaking the film altogether or destroying the loop below the gate.

My trick with fragile 16mm was twofold: firstly to join 20-30 feet of polyester spacing onto the front. That way the projector is totally up to speed and the take-up spool is pulling smoothly (a big advantage if you're running heavy 6,000 foot spools) before the brittle stuff starts going into the mech. If you lose a loop there should be enough spacing left to safely abort the start. Secondly, if you are using a projector which advances the film using a claw in the gate (as distinct from one with an intermittent mechanism, e.g. an FP-18), manually advance the mechanism so that the claw is engaging a perforation before starting the motor. This prevents a loop being lost.


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-18-2002 10:40 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo, I was thinking almost the same thing. This particular projector doesn't get a lot of use around here (16mm is relatively rare for us), and so of course, our projectionists are less experienced with it (it's an EIKI 6120).

This particular short broke on the countdown, which is hardly a terrible failure, all things considered. I was thinking about replacing the countdown or adding more leader, and still might do that. Still, my first preference would be to see what can be done to reduce the jerk on initial startup, I suspect something needs tweaking...

--jhawk

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-18-2002 02:06 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IMHO, if you're using a 6,000 foot spool for 16mm, the initial jerk is going to be pretty severe whatever you do. Projectors which have a separate motor for the take-up (e.g. a Fumeo HL3000) are slightly kinder, but I really don't think there's very much in it. I guess you could try manually restraining the spool as the motor comes up to full speed in order to lessen the impact, but I found that sticking miles of polyester on the front (which can withstand the jerk) was much less hassle.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-18-2002 02:17 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is probably obvious, but I'll mention it anyway: as with 35mm, be sure to use floating-hub reels for anything larger than 2000'. If you have a pile of fixed-hub 6000' reels, use them for feed only and get some floating-hub ones for takeup use. Using fixed-hub 6000' reels for takeup will almost guarantee film damage as the reel comes up to speed...

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-18-2002 02:25 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Boy, lots of answers for a question unasked.

This was with a small plastic reel (500'?), though there are definitely issues with the takeup tension jig on the Eiki. I'll have to play around with it more.

When I did a post-mortem this afternoon, though, it was discovered that one of the rollers on the path just before the takeup had fallen off the projector onto the floor. Fixing this doubtless helps (sigh).

--jhawk

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