my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 16/35mm Projector? (Page 3)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: 16/35mm Projector? Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-23-2011 02:28 PM                     If anyone wants to check out one of those Erneman 16/35's mentioned earlier in this thread, Steve Krams has had one or more listed on ebay for months. They're supposedly from a cruise line.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 04-23-2011 03:20 PM                     since i did work 4 years on the ernemann 15 combo 16/35 unit w/ changeovers, i can say: - fair share of 'general' problems with the machine (2 or 3 igniters went, couple belts, about 10 broken reel axle things) - 16mm we couldn't get decent/fair sound, magnetic or optical, maybe also because of disastrous prints - inconsistent changovers soundwise(sometimes no sound on changeover, required restarts of projector) - 16mm gate was quite hard on film and had to be loosened alot => enter wow and flutter in sound and image - revolver issues (kept 'falling apart' and slipping, damn rotary screw thingies) otherwise a nice machine for 35mm for picture stability and light uniformity, real nice and gentle on 35mm prints (ran a heck of a lot of acetate in various states).  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 04-24-2011 03:05 AM                     Too bad ernemann is so bad, i knew they have some problems, but that is too much! Kinoton is far better when you take 35/16mm version, but also price is about 50% more with kinoton, but with kinoton you are problem free! That ernemann's on ebay are late 8's Ernemann 12.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 04-24-2011 10:09 AM                     quote: Jeff Taylor If anyone wants to check out one of those Erneman 16/35's mentioned earlier in this thread, Steve Krams has had one or more listed on ebay for months. They're supposedly from a cruise line. The ones listed on e-bay are Fujis. They've been listed for over a year I think. I ran a couple of these in a screening room for awhile a few years back. They had a few idyosyncrocies, but I never had any real problem with them. Here's a picture from the listing. You "stole" the light path from the 35mm machine. You had to be sure you slid the 16mm mechanism precicesly into the right position, or the screen illumination would be uneven. I once ran an IB Tech scope print of "Towering Inferno" on one of these machines and I was suprised at how good it looked! The picture shows it set up for 16mm (left) and 35mm (right) Only one of the 35mm machines was equipped with the 16mm option in the screening room I ran them at, since with a 6,000ft 16mm film capacity, there was no need for 16mm changeovers.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-24-2011 11:31 AM                     Jim: He has/had the Erneman's listed, too, along with those Fuji's. I doubt they're sold, so they'll probably show up again!  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-24-2011 11:55 AM                     I have pictures of the Kinoton FP-38D machines HERE for those who haven't seen them. The FP-38D is the "mechanical" version...it is an FP-20 35mm mech with an FP-18 mounted as the back door. Advantages are: Near-instant switching from 35 to 16 and vice-versa; Dual mechanisms means one being down doesn't kill both formats; Easy maintenance for both mechanisms; Less clutter in the threading path (unless you have the 4-track mag setup on the 35mm side like mine do.) Disadvantages are: Requires 2 lamphouses and rectifiers per machine; Takes up a lot more space because of the lamphouses; You now have 2 intermittents per machine to service; They weigh a LOT. And a problem with the speed control design: the relays Kinoton uses SUCK. I have had both machines refuse to come up to full speed (or work in jog [POS] mode) because of the flaky relays. A wonderful thing to have happen during a changeover. I am looking into a substitute for the crap relays and if I find it I will start a thread or make a warehouse submission showing how to get rid of those bastards. I also rate their lens turret and aperture changer a c- at best. Finally, here in La-La Land there were, at one time, a LOT of Simplex XL's with swing-away RCA 16mm heads mounted.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-24-2011 01:53 PM                        Thanks, Tony. That's the swing away I was most familiar with. (No shutter in the 16mm.) Louis  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-24-2011 02:19 PM                     Yes! Marin is right... Anyting but Ernemann! Crap is crap no matter what! An RCA-400 and Brenkert BX-60 would be a better choice for 35 and 16mm than the Ernemann would be.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 04-24-2011 03:07 PM                     quote: Advantages are: ... Dual mechanisms means one being down doesn't kill both formats; ... But that doesn't really help much unless you have both 16 and 35 prints of the film. quote: Disadvantages are: Requires 2 lamphouses and rectifiers per machine; Takes up a lot more space because of the lamphouses; Not all installations used two lamphouses. Of the two places that I've seen them the ones at the Barbican Centre did, there were two machines, each with two lamphouses, and I think there were two auditoria, but I only saw one, and don't know what equipment the other had. The Rio Dalston had one machine, but only one lamphouse, with a horizontal periscope system to divert the light to the 16mm head; a lever would swing one mirror out of the way for 35mm. The lamp to film plane distance would be greater than normal, so presumably there would have been a lens element to correct for this. A few years ago there was an advert shown in cinemas which involved a projectionist giving an unusual interpretation of a famous film, I can't remember the details, but one of these machines, running 16 mm, could be seen in the background. I do remember that the back-tension on the feed spool was in serious need of adjustment. Somebody here will probably remember what it was for. I've heard two suggestions as to where this was filmed, one was a preview theatre, and the other was Dalston. I think part of a second machine could be seen in the advert, and I'm pretty sure that there was only one machine at Dalston when I visited the box there, but that was a long time ago. It takes more space than a normal machine, but less than two separate right-handed machines. Where two machines are installed one operating space can serve the inner sides of both machines.  |  IP: Logged Simon Wyss Film Handler Posts: 80 From: Basel, BS, Switzerland Registered: Apr 2011 posted 04-25-2011 05:47 AM                     I’m familiar with the FP 38 and Ernemann conshtructions. Never choose a combination machine! The steadiness concept underlying 16-mm. film can be found with ISO DIN 69. A distinct hole (pair) is defined as being the one to be employed by a claw or any other registrating device. Not so with 35-mm. film (where we don’t have a specific positioning distance to the optical axis). As long as the formats are treated in totally different geometric approaches we should keep the small-gauge film on claw movement projectors. I do admit that most 16-mm. film prints are not intermittently exposed, I mean they are exposed on continuous printers which produce something like an average image steadiness. Bell & Howell’s older Filmosound projectors having that empty stroke movement in conjunction with a single-pale shutter were only a mediocre attempt at solving the problem. Their claw is situated level with the aperture which doesn’t help. It takes a standard step print to make a difference on a standard claw projector. I prefer good 16 presentation to bad 35.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.