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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » What to do about motorboating prints? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: What to do about motorboating prints?
John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-10-2002 04:37 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oops, sorry Scott, got a bit distracted and missed your questions.

In regards to being the "only print," I may have misinterpreted what Technicolor said to me and it may be that all their prints are booked this weekend, rather than this being the only one.

The motorboating does happen on both projectors, though not perfectly consistently, and it also happens on our pair of Bauer U4s.

It does not sound appreciably better in mono, no.

--jhawk

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-10-2002 04:58 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, did you book that print through Swank or some other college-type distributor?

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-10-2002 04:59 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, all 3 prints were booked through Swank.

--jhawk

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-10-2002 05:25 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
jhawk, I think Brad is right about the shrinkage, but for the record there is a slim possibility that there could be print damage in or at the edge of the soundtrack area from a misthreaded sprocket. If damage is every other reel or not on all reels, I'd check the soundtrack out for tiny pinpricks or scratches.

Print edges can get shaved, too. A worn Norelco band once split about a millimeter of the outboard side of "Love Story" on me. It wore through, hit a splice, and by the time I was through with the changeover in the other booth I had a pile of about 90 feet of 1 mm film by the takeup reel. It took me a few seconds to even figure out what it was and where it was coming from. Since it was the final part of the run, during the last showings I had to press against the edge of the film to keep things more or less aligned during that section. After that experience I demanded new bands.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 03-10-2002 07:47 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve Guttag opined:
>The reason? As far as I can tell, economics. The R-3 now works for
>both JJ and SA operation. No need for two soundheads to be available.

Hmm...interesting. I thought there was a difference in magazine or arm mounting plus how are the by-pass rollers attached? Or do you mean that only new R-3's can be used under a JJ?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-10-2002 09:14 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, wait, on new-model JJs the 70mm film path does not pass through the soundhead at all? I guess that this kind of makes sense, but I'm having a hard time visualizing it. When did they change the design?


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-10-2002 10:11 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The change happened under ORC's watch. In the Mid '80s the R-50 was still current. In 1987 was the first JJ I installed with the R3 under the JJ.

Scott, the current JJ is a hideous thing...there is a slot cut out of the front and two additional roller are added to allow the film to be guided out to the slot. On the soundhead (optical) this ugly roller contraption is mounted so the film comes out the front and goes around the optical soundhead to meet up with the cue detector.

Steve, since the magazines were discontinued before the switch I'll rule that as a reason out. I'm pretty sure the JJ is a bolt up to the MR3 soundhead. I recall using our mule R3 soundhead to run one in for intermittent rebuilds.

I just think someone had the bright idea (no doubt after one of the biggies complained about a "bunch-up" after a break in the sound head) hey we only need to make one soundhead and the 35/70 on is but a fraction of the total sales. On the Simplex the 35/70 soundhead is identical except for the two bypass rollers whose holes are present on all units.

Steve

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-10-2002 11:57 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, we're done with that run. Looks like its not going to break even $ $.

Anyhow, Brad's lateral roller adjustment worked well for Raiders. I hadn't personally listened to the lossage on Last Crusade, and it seems to just be dirt or some other damage on the soundtrack. Adjusting the lateral roller doesn't help it, nor is it confined to a single optical channel, nor is it sufficiently regular in pitch to be motorboating. I would say it was clearly dirt, though that was not obvious from inspection, nor was the rest of the print visually dirty (surprisingly enough).

Ah, well. We'll see how much post-mortem I am inclined to do on this the coming week.

--jhawk


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 03-11-2002 01:12 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Yes, all 3 prints were booked through Swank.<<

TES handles Swank's library, explaining why TES handled your prints. Otherwise (thru Paramount) they would have been handled by ETS.

-Aaron

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-11-2002 01:26 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, that's not true. Swank goes through both TES and ETS, depending.

--jhawk

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-11-2002 03:32 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the print's width has shrunk so much that it's pushed the soundtrack out of alignment relative to the pickup, I would have thought that the length must also have shrunk so much that vertical stability and perforation damage would be causing problems...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-11-2002 03:57 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Many projectors can play shrunken film quite nicely, Centurys for example.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-11-2002 04:04 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True. I've never used a Century; in my experience FP-20s are the kindest to shrunk and brittle triacetate, possibly because the pitch of the sprockets is so thin. I've even run a 1928 diacetate (butyrate) print on one, without any problem at all. The soundtrack was fine too, but it was variable density, which I guess would be less susceptible to lateral shift than variable area.

But there are some projectors which would eat the perforations on severely shrunken film for breakfast - Gaumont-Kalee 38s, for example.


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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-11-2002 08:36 AM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Swank has no 35mm library actually. They do not own a single 35mm print. If you call Swank tobook a 35mm print through Swank, then they call the studio that owns the print. If the studio approves the rental, then the studio has either the depot or vault and has the printy shipped to you. So, who handles the print has nothing to do with Swank, it depends on where the particluar studio's prints are kept. It's a really problematic process that has caused us unbelieveable problems with booking and receiving films booked through them.

They do hald a large collection of 16mm prints however. If you book 16mm from them, it is shipped directly from their facility.


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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-11-2002 10:22 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps some clarification is in order.

Generally, Swank prints go through the studios and thus TES or ETS as appropriate. However, Swank does in fact own a handful of 35mm prints. Apparently this happens when someone pays them enough cash to have a new print of something struck. Those prints are handled by TES, and are different from the regular TES prints of a given film.

It seems that there was a recent print of Raiders that was such a Swank-owned print, though supposedly it is now trashed. I assume this is a different print than the one that I hear was struck recently for theatrical/arthouse use, and presumably different from the print Avon is running that Scott referenced.

--jhawk

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