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Topic: Film cement joins

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-15-2002 10:47 PM

Pish. The only scraper any real projectionist ever used was a single edged razor blade. "Gem?" somebody help me out here. The only way to make a decent splice was to spit on the index finger, wipe it on the emulsion, wait a few seconds, then wipe it off with the "preferably slightly dull" razor blade, then make the splice.

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Stan Gunn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-15-2002 11:17 PM

Jerry.

Didnt I see you under the bed?

The O.H.A.S. has banned the practice of spitting in the Bio box / booth
as all the spittoons and sand buckets have now been removed, this means that all cigar butts must now be disposed of via the exhaust ducting, and spittle confined to ones own mouth.
It is however allowed to discharge a stream of spittle at nitrate film should your cigar ignite the film.
Extreme care should be used however in not allowing spittle to splash onto your asistant.

------------------
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-16-2002 12:41 AM

When I was in Japan in a long time ago, the Japaneze showed me how to make a perfect splice with only a pair of scissors and a small stick about the size of a "Q" tip.

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 03-16-2002 05:04 PM

Stan,
The scrapers are hard to find, unless you can buy one from Wolk or some other supplier that has old Neumade supplies in a warehouse drawer. You might ask Bob Maar--I think he's connected with Neumade.
Scrapers are listed in the old catalogs from the 1930's. Incidentally, the rounded shiny piece of bar stock screwed parallel to the right of the anvil bar, is a guide on which the grooved scraper
travels as you scrape back and forth. (Most users never realized why it was there.)
As for refinishing, the original black finish was baked on and impervious to film cement or solvent cleaner. The factory used the same process in refinishing splicers sent to them. But some projectionists repainted them with aluminum paint or black enamel
which looked crappy and softened in use. Every last part, from the spring clips, cutters and screws, were available from the parts catalog, and projectionists used to order them and keep spares in little manila envelopes. If you have a chance to visit an old booth
in a theatre undergoing renovation or demolition, look for these envelopes on shelves in the rewind room or in steel drawers.
Keeping such a simple cast-iron splicer in top shape was a matter of pride to projectionists before tape splicers came into use.

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004

posted 10-08-2004 06:29 PM

It has been 937 days since the last post.

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John Strunack
Film Handler

Posts: 1
From: Hummelstown, Pa, USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-08-2004 06:29 PM

I realize that ranting over cement (ultrasonic ) lab splices to film companies is like beating a dead horse, But lately we have been getting a large rash of lab splice in our theater. Taxi had 6 lab splices Cellular had 3 lab splices Friday night lights 1 lab splice and ladder-49 had 2 lab splices. Since we are a small independent theater and low payroll and budget I try to get most of the lab splices out as I can on build up night. The big problem we are experiencing here with the lab splices is causes the picture to jump out of frame in the projector and sometimes get crooked in the gate causing the film to get stretched. I have checked everything in the projector including adjusting pad rollers and they still cause a problem. I been in the movie industry as both projectionist and theater technician for 10 years and never came across problems like this before. I also have advised our backup theater technician who has been in the field for 25 years and he is stumped. Can anyone out there that may be assistance in what is causing the lab splices to go crazy in our projectors. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

We are running Simplex 1014 Xl projectors 4 of them have gate bands and 3 have the straight gate

Is jumps on both types of gates.

Thanks John [Roll Eyes]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-08-2004 06:32 PM

You have some serious issues with your trap alignment if an ultrasonic splice is causing the film to jump the track. If your tech can't fix it, it's time to get one that can.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-08-2004 06:39 PM

Ultrasonic lab splices may sometimes be ugly (especially if not on the frameline), but they are usually reliable. But typically, there are "ears" that protrude over the edge of the film a bit, made up of excess polyester from the weld. Maybe your gates are set a bit tight, so these "hang up" in the gate? If you decide to leave the splice in the print, carefully trim the edges of the splice overlap smooth with the edge of the film.

If the labs are using 6000-foot raw stock rolls, on AVERAGE, you will have one splice every three or four reels. Here is the guideline from the Association of Cinema and Video Laboratories:

http://www.acvl.org/manual/4c.htm

quote:
In release printing, it is recommended that there be a maximum of two splices per 400 feet of 16mm or 1000 feet of 35mm. These two splices may be insert splices, or one of the two splices can be a raw stock splice. There should never be two raw stock splices in the same reel. It is further recommended that spliced raw stock not be used in trial prints, dailies, TV spots or recording prints. It is customary practices to charge a premium for release prints that have no raw stock splices.

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Tommie Evans
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 116
From: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 10-09-2004 06:05 AM

If I encounter a lab splice that I know will be visible as a 'splat' across the screen, what do I do?

a: leave it - as Joe public will never notice it (I've seen people watch an entire film in the wrong ratio and leave smiling [Eek!]

)

b: Tape over it.

c: Cut a frame out - which will effect continuity, sound and add a visible tape splice into the print.

personally as long as the splice is well made at the lab I'm all for leaving it untouched.

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-09-2004 09:57 AM

I always used an emory board to rough up both the scraped stub and the base stub.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-09-2004 10:14 AM

Personally, I feel that if a lab splice is mid-frame, it should always be removed.

quote: Tommie Evans
a: leave it - as Joe public will never notice it (I've seen people watch an entire film in the wrong ratio and leave smiling)

I don't know about that one. I noticed them, and they were extremely distracting to me, long before I entered this industry. I was not at all nit-picky about presentation, but I certainly noticed lab splices. I'm sure others do, too.

quote: Tommie Evans
b: Tape over it.

What good will that do? The distraction will still be there, and because of the tape, the image will jump in the gate.

quote: Tommie Evans
c: Cut a frame out - which will effect continuity, sound and add a visible tape splice into the print.

I don't think anyone -- certainly not Joe Public -- will notice one frame. True, you will be putting a tape splice in its place, but in my opinion (that is not to say this is a fact, as everyone's opinions are different) the tape splice is the lesser of the two evils.

Of course, if your company has policy on how lab splices should be handled, you should certainly follow it. If not, my personal recommendation would be to remove the lab splice and replace it with a well-made clear tape splice.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-09-2004 10:36 AM

One frame is easily seen provided there is noticeable action in the frame. (For example, a person walking from one side to the other.) Ultimately it boils down to policy or personal preference, but I hate it when people remake a lab splice that was on the frameline. That's just stupid. [Mad]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-09-2004 11:29 AM

Brad--you don't care about the nasty "pop" that lab splices make even if they're on the frameline? Or have you found a way to bloop them (I've found that black Sharpies are largely ineffective at this).

(Let's ignore digital sound for the moment, as many theatres don't have it and many non-wide-release films only have optical tracks.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-09-2004 12:05 PM

I'm with Scott on this one. If I know the film will be playing in digital, and the lab splice is on the frameline, I'll leave it. But if it's going to play in optical, the lab splice goes bye-bye.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-09-2004 12:42 PM

Being that every screen I work at or service has digital sound, nah it's not an issue.

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