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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Topic: house lights for end credits?
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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001
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posted 04-13-2002 09:57 AM
Based on some of the movies I've seen recently it's basically "wing it".Death to Smoochy: When the screen goes black after the ice dance at the end, just as the song "Higher and Higher" by Jackie Wilson fades out. The AMC Hamilton put the lights-up cue at the start of the ice dance. Not distracting that way but easy to notice. Monsoon Wedding: When the screen goes black before the end credits/wedding ceremony start. Otherwise it'll distract. Gosford Park: The credit roll starts while the camera pans the countryside. Ideally you should wait until all the credits are done. The AMC Hamilton placed the lights-up cue at the start of the end credits -- and that tended to distract.
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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 04-13-2002 11:37 AM
I agree that for safety reasons, the lights should come up partly during the credits. That is probablly why it is our company policy to do so. But I don't raise the lights if there are outakes or other scenes during the credits. I wait until they fade to black. But if it's just a matter of the credits being shown over some backround pictures, I'll probablly bring the lights up to 50% when the credits start.Michael Barry said: "John Wilson's new procedure(tm) is to cue the print at the very start of the credits, then set a delay time on the automation for however long we like until we want the lights to come up. This delay time can be determined with a stopwatch during the first screening. This also has the benefit of standardising print makeup, and allows 'fine tuning' of 'lights up' without touching the cue on the print. Absolutely brilliant, methinks!" Brilliant, indeed. Whay type of automation? Michale also said: "One of the chains I used to work for issued a memo from head office stating that house light are to go to full the moment the first credit hits the screen. Imagine how beautifully that would work for something like 'Taxi Driver' or 'Five Easy Pieces' or the aforementioned 'Royal Tenenbaums'." Was this by any chance AMC? I've only seen one movie at AMC, but that's exactly what happened, and it was *extremely* anoying! The lights didn't even fade up, they just came full on right away! Grrrr.... ------------------ This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....
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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-14-2002 08:40 AM
Hi Ken,Congrats about your job! The automation we use is the Multimation III, which is Windows based software that communicates directly with AMX Axcess(tm) automation hardware. Perhaps John and I should work on a product review! The Christie/Pennywise unit that is reviewed on this site has a similar 'delay' capability that allows a film cue to be read but a delay to kick in prior to the intended function being performed (in this case, lights up). I'm not sure how long a delay can be set in those units, but the principle is the same. Often Kinoton consoles come with this unit so you might be able to use the same technique at your new job. The chain that I referred to is Greater Union, which I think only exists in Australia and perhaps a handful of other territories (they are expanding now). I would think that many chains would adopt that policy, however. Does your new location use Filmguard? If not, get some! 
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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 04-14-2002 11:27 AM
Michael,Only our projectors are Kinoton. Our consols and automation are Big Sky. Out of curiousity, do you know if that delay can be done with the Strong CNA 150 or 200? We have a media cleaner. I'm going to ask about Film Guard once I start working there. ------------------ This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....
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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-14-2002 11:37 AM
Hi Ken,I'm not familiar with the strong automation units, but Pat Moore will most likely have the answer.
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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-14-2002 03:14 PM
I think that, in general, the house lights should be raised to a pre-set level once the background on the credits fades to black.Of course, it depends a lot on the picture and venue. I have noticed on Woody Allen films, for example, that most if not all of the audience tends to stay until the last credit. One runs the risk of strangulation by the director if one brings up ANY lights during the credits at the Toronto Film Festival. These performances, of course are run manually without automation. Using CPA-10 automations, I used to set the timer so that the house lights came up to pre-set on the credit lights cue and then up full at 1:30 min. after that.
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-14-2002 04:53 PM
We are using the Christie CA-21 Automation units. The cue is placed about 5-feet before the moment that the house lights should be at half. This is to account for the fader slew setting.The point of cue insertion is variable...some credit sequences (like the ones in Disney/Pixar movies) have outtakes and some (like those in WILD THINGS) occur with additional scenes still playing. Patrons who were moved by tear-jerker endings would probably appreciate it if we wait a few extra moments before raising house lights. It's a matter of taste and there really are no hard-and-fast rules. Still, the issue of safety inevitably presents itself and, at some point early in the credits, the lights simply must raise to at least half. We have our automations set up to raise lights to "House Half" upon receiving the credits cue, and then there is a one minute delay before raising all the way to "House Full." By this point, there is nobody in the auditorium...unless the crowd is so large that they are *still exiting*...but the point is that only a few people read credits here and those few who read them have never complained that we raise the lights during the credit roll. In any event, their desire to read credits is outweighed by our need to allow two hundred and fifty people to exit safely (especially when one considers that raising the lights does not render the credits illegible). Cleaning should be forbidden if patrons are reading credits. If the room is empty, then the ushers should certainly go ahead and start cleaning early. But the credits are part of the movie and they must be played. It's the same as starting a show with nobody in the auditorium. Just because nobody is there, doesn't mean we're off the hook and don't have to run the show. Someone might come ten minutes late...similarly, a viewer might come back into the room to read those music credits that are always near the end. A competing cineplex cuts the credits off...you couldn't read the credits even if you wanted to. They also don't play the opening studio logos. And these aren't "Bid Prints" either...I've checked. I know their "chief projectionist" personally. We used to work together and he's always had a distaste for showing credits...especially on the last show of the day. The lights come up about a minute before the final fade, the credits play for about another minute and then...whoosh...they're gone and the screen goes white. Say whatever you like about us playing credits with the lights all the way up...and say what you might about us playing trailers with the lights at half. What we're doing is certainly a compromise...but what those other guys are doing is poor showmanship due to sheer laziness. Not to mention that it probably constitutes a breach (sp?) of contract. That's DEFINITELY NOT "film done right." ------------------ And, hey! Let's be careful out there. ~Manny.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 04-15-2002 03:37 AM
Being an arthouse purist I would insist on no houselights at all during the credits. They're part of the film, and if people want to watch them they should be allowed to do so in the same conditions that they saw the rest of the movie. I don't always sit through credit runs, but I do sit through some, especially if I like the music or want to find out a specific piece of information, e.g. where the location scenes were filmed.The health and safety argument - that 90% of the audience will walk out during the credits and so the lighting is necessary for them to get out in safety - is a flawed one. After all, if there is a power failure in the middle of a performance, perhaps due to a fire, then 100% of the audience will need to get out without any help from the houselights. If the primary maintained (i.e. battery powered) lighting is not bright enough for someone with average sight to see their way out, then that theatre is a serious safety risk. Furthermore, by leaving the houselights out during credits you are constantly testing the PMLs and ensuring that they are sufficient to allow a house full of customers to leave in safety.
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