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Author Topic: Rotating Xenons? Pro or Con?
Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-14-2002 09:41 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll side with Steve and stick with my previous thoughts. Again, I've not seen the Magnacom's be "light eaters", especially if they are properly coupled with lens focal lengths they are designed to work with. The new Zoom Converters are much better than the old Magnacoms. It's more like newer technologies are more light efficient. Generally (emphasize "generally"), I would prefer a fixed prime lens instead of a prime coupled to a Zoom or especially to a Magnacom, but there are a lot of instances where Zooms are an excellent tool and can actually be a better choice. Curved screens are a great example.

Yes, if I take a Zoom Converter, properly coupled to the correct prime lens and compare it to a fixed focal length lens of the same resulting focal length, the light levels will be very close. Not too many years ago the combination would have been brighter and more uniform on screen than the single prime, but improvements over the past decade and especially in the last couple of years with prime lenses has changed that. I think there is still a place for Zooms, though, in some applications and have had great results with them. Does that mean I'd put them in every theatre? Nope.

Brad, sounds like there are application and/or coupling problems in your example. The true Magnacom didn't like working with a prime lens below 70mm (I think), and it needed close couplers to do that. Otherwise you will see vignetting and probably light loss as well. The Magnacom is nominally a 65% magnifier, so coupled to a 70mm lens the resulting focal length is around 45mm. To get to 40mm or below, they are coupled to 60 or 65mm and that's probably where the problem lies. If it's a late 80's installation, who knows what might be in there.

Like most things, a Magnacom is just a tool that functions fairly well if it's properly used. Newer tools and technologies do tend to be better, if properly used.

Pat


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-15-2002 10:03 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat Moore asked: "John -- by "shim", I assume you refer to a washer that would be used on "HTP" style lamps, right? I think washers are normally provided by the lamp manufacturers for 180-degree rotation."

Yes, I meant the lamps that have the screw-in base. Didn't know if they came with shims/washers to allow 90-degree rotation increments.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-15-2002 04:35 PM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John -- I haven't seen washers for 90-degree rotation from anyone, no. Osram was the obvious one I first remember, and it allowed 180-degree rotation. I'm not sure what other manufacturers like Ushio might provide, if anything. Most of the warranty policies I've seen require 180-degree rotation, so that might be all there is.

Most systems will allow orientation of the lamp as desired, as long as they are not the "HTP" style cathode.

Pat

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 04-15-2002 04:51 PM      Profile for Wes Hughes   Email Wes Hughes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have done many experiments with different makes of lamps and I get the best performance out of lamps when I DO NOT rotate them (3K and under).

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 04-16-2002 09:12 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To me, rotating a bulb makes common sense in that it can help keep the tungsten electrode on a horizontal plane. But one thing that I have noticed on this thread is manufacturers instructions. If I remember correctly, Christie does not recommend rotating bulbs in their lamphouses.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-18-2002 03:23 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone worked with the new Schneider Variable FL lens? I know they were designed specifically to correct minor variations where the available focal lengths won't match the aspect ratio exactly. The adjustment will fix that so you don;t have to crop. But here's my thought, does the lens have enough of an adjustment so that you could use it to function for 1.85 and 1.66? Would it have that much FL range? It would be a boon to art houses to be able to buy one lens and use it for both formats. But then, what's the difference between this and a zoom lens? And wouldn't the Variable lens have the same disadvantages of a zoom....slightly less light transmission and resolution than a fixed focus?

Frank

Oh,and as for rotating xenons....I once worked a drive-in and we had rotating carbons.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 04-19-2002 12:34 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Schneider VPL lenses work within a limited range which is great for trimming for keystone errors et cetera but not enough or practical(due to the lens lock function and allen wrench ) to go between formats. The image quality is equal to a prime, hence "Variable Prime"
name. There are some zoom + integrated prime lens available which we use for rentals which have 15 - 20 mm range but the image is passable.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 04-19-2002 10:04 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What Richard said! I've used some of those Schneider variables too. They are not designed to cover more than one format, but to allow you to tweak the image size to get the aspect ratio on screen perfect.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-22-2002 08:07 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pete said: "...allow you to tweak the image size to get the aspect ratio on screen perfect."

Yeah! A person who "cares about composition" to "Do Film Right":
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/spring2001/pytalk.shtml


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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