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Author Topic: Shutting down at night
Barry Hans
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-16-2002 08:54 AM      Profile for Barry Hans   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Hans   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I worked at a film society on a university campus the sound system equipment was never shut down. At the Imax I work the sound system is never shut down. I have seen no amp failures or processor failures at either place. I adopted the idea at my theatre and have not had any problems in doing so.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-16-2002 10:05 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What does it do to an electricity bill to leave that much equipment running 24/7 ?

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Giorgio Volpi
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Caracas - Venezuela
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 06-16-2002 10:53 AM      Profile for Giorgio Volpi   Email Giorgio Volpi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First: breakers are not switches; they are a circuit protection.
For this reason it is better to not touch them unless it should be worked on a specific line.
I recommend the following system:
A contactor feeds the entrance of the main circuit breaker panel. The contactor switch is near the projector, and it is a waterproof type, to avoid its involuntary pulse.
The breakers feeds the following minimum lines: threephasic for rectifier, two mono for rack, mono for projector, mono for platter.
All equipments must be turned off with their own switches before turning off the contactor.
Amplifiers must be turned on with an interval of about three seconds between one and another, after turning on the contactor.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 06-16-2002 11:08 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My rack is connected to just one 'thing on the wall' (Don't know specifically if it is a switch or a breaker)
excluding the cd player and mixer.

Power up
Flip the switch on the wall
Switch the amps one one at a time

Power Down
Switch the amps off one at a time
Flip the switch on the wall


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-16-2002 12:40 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For years, I have been shutting the booths down from the breaker panels with no ill effects.

However, the start-up procedure in many sound systems could be an issue. There are some Cinema Processors that can throw a nasty spike into the power amplifier inputs, so you want to make sure the processor is powered up before the amplifiers are. Many amplifiers are time-delay protected, but some are not.


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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-16-2002 12:55 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the problems with cheap owners is that they will not pay for proper electrical installation. Some of the older buildings would need to be re wired and they just dont want to do it right, so installers are left with having to put entire sound racks on one larger breaker. Hence why having to use the power switches themselves.

If this is how it is wired up, you have no alternative but to use the on board device power switch.

Dave

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 06-16-2002 02:13 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unless I'm missunderstanding, it seems like some people are recommending shutting off the actual power switches on each item (I'm not talking about older improper instillations that Dave is referring to), and some are recommending just using the breakers. Just so every one knows what I'm using, here is a picture of the switches (are they breakers??) on our consoles:

This is our sound rack:

The crossover doesn't have a power switch, but the CP650, the monitor, and the amps all do. And I believe the switch on the console does control a contactor, because you can hear a loud pop (although not as loud as some theaters I've seen) when you turn on the sound rack, whether each piece of equipment was turned of with its power switch or not.

This is a brand new installation, so I can only hope that all the breakers were wired properly. Although we never touch the breaker boxes on the wall, I'll check those out next time I work.


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-16-2002 02:49 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken:

If your cinema has prescribed a shut-down procedure you should follow it; I wouldn't advise you to go ahead and develop your own way of doing things on your own. You're going to get a lot of good advice here but just make sure it doesn't put you in harm's way.

Not to be a pessimist or anything, but there's that old adage: "No good deed goes unpunished."

There also tends to be politics in the booths and if it looks like you're making a bid for Booth Lead or Supervisor, your coworkers can start doing stuff to make you look bad. The solution to that is to stay in communication with your superiors regarding what you are doing and why you do things the way you do.

As for tweaking the equipment, just make sure that you don't end up creating extra work for your tech. I've had some booth operators who got ahead of themselves by trying to be "helpful" and they created extra work for me and one of them eventually became an usher as a result.

Just some friendly advice.


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 06-16-2002 03:12 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny,

Thanks for the advice. I'm not tryig to go over anyone's head here. If that's they way they want things done, that's the way I'll do it. I'm just trying to learn what the best way to do things is for the sake of the equipment. This doesn't seem to be too big of an issue, so I'll probablly just drop it. But if there was a policy in place that I felt was harmful for the equipment, I would gather all the facts and tactfully bring it to their attention. As far as tweaking the equipment, I would not do anything without my GM's permission. And I'd show him that I know what I'm doing in. I can admit when I'm in over my head.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-16-2002 03:42 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Excellent.

I was just having premature pangs of guilt and I wanted to make sure I'd done the whole "disclaimer disclaimer" thing. That's all.

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-16-2002 04:49 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I worked at an older 8-plex built around 1989, we would have to shut off all of the amps one by one before we flipped the switch on the sound rack or it would trip the breaker.

I'm not sure what brand/manufacturer these sound racks were as most of the text had rubbed off over the years, but I will try to describe them the best I can:

The entire "sound rack" was a self-contained processor, monitor, and amp unit. They were "christie teal" in color, the larger ones sat on the floor (8 amps in the cabinet) and the smaller ones were wall-mounted (3 to 4 amps in the cabinet). The wall mounted ones would swing open for servicing. I have also seen one of these exact same units in the "cinema" our university was interested in restoring at one point. Ultra Stereo perhaps?

I remember one day one of the amps didn't come on when I flipped its corresponding switch. I went to flip it off, then back on and it shot sparks at me!

They have since replaced the processors and such with Dolby CP-50s I believe. Perhaps Mr. Donald Dixon who works at the location now (posted here a few months ago) could give more details.

=TMP=


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-16-2002 04:53 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are power sequencers available which will turn on and off equipment in a specific order with suitable delays between each step.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-16-2002 04:58 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve: Could you maybe give a manufacturer's name or a specific product? I'd like to look into this as a possibility in the new booths.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-16-2002 05:12 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many crossovers and processors tend to produce a nasty thump on powerup and down so it is best tio power the processor up first and downlast.
Personally I usually insist large systems are left powered up with the fader turned down. Ideling the power drain is very small

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-16-2002 10:23 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm actually surprised that more theatres don't have the power sequencers installed. I don't have a brand or model number handy, but I've seen them in "legitimate" theater installations and they work very well.

Without a power sequencer, some processors (CP-50 for sure and, I think, CP-200 as well) _will_ damage speakers if you power up the entire rack at once, unless the amps are QSCs or some other type that has a delayed power feature. The CP-500 and CP-65 do not have this "feature," however. I've never seen a CP-650, so I have no idea if this is an issue (probably not, but...). This is the problem that Paul and others have mentioned.

Brad -- I've seen several booths with one breaker for the entire sound rack. Yes, they all have/had low-power sound systems (and weren't digital).

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