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Topic: My Big Bulge

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-24-2002 11:30 AM

Adam Martin said: "Joe, you're such a tease in your old age ..."

Joe never teases. (NOT!!!!)

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-24-2002 11:48 AM

Frank: don't let this scenario scare you out of getting a platter system if you are thinking of going that way. It is a true rarity. Just don't get a CFS/ORC platter. Instead, get a Christie (set up by Brad, of course!), a SPECO or a Kinoton and you won't have any trouble at all.

If you are running the same few program(s) over and over then it's probably a better way of operating, and when using FilmGuard, unquestionably so.

If you are running repertory or some other situation where you show a different print every session or close to it, then stick with the second projector.

I hope this post doesn't seem too didactic. I'm probably stating the obvious. Apologies in advance if this is the case!

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 07-24-2002 12:01 PM

Everytime I seen this the film has been damage, in fact I just service two theatres that had this problem & both theatres had slightly damage sprocket holes, cause by mis-theading, and/or bad sprocket and/or bad pad roller...which was in the case of theatre #1....if you see this bulge, check the print to see if the sprocket holes is slightly damage, usually in one corner of the sprocket hole...

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-24-2002 12:58 PM

Every time I have had this problem it has turned out to be scoring the film with a pad roller that is too tight. So after threading the machines, twiddle the pad rollers to check their clearence. Pad rollers shouldn't touch the film.

I also have simplexes and this has been my problem.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-24-2002 01:04 PM

Michael,

Actually all the places I work are art houses and museums and rarely play a feature more than a few times. They all play festivals, some run by very coordination-challenged curators; running such shows sometimes I wish I had THREE projectors....actually, counting the 16mm I do....ok, FOUR projectors. Platters just wouldn't lend themselves to this kind of pretty chaotic operation. Platters fulfull a particular need -- quick changing programs and multiple formats isn't what they are about. But believe me, when I have to buy TWO digital readers and TWO new ISCO lenes and TWO new red readers, I look longingly over at you platter guys!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-24-2002 01:04 PM

I do believe that the sprockets are slightly damaged. It is not so bad that the film jumped off of a sprocket, but on the non-soundtrack side of the film, the sprockets feel a bit "rough" when passing through, and the Dolby Digital side sprockets do not. I think maybe the sprockets have been stretched due to the amazing tension the vacuum cleaner motor driven platters put on the film coming from the projector. Also when the film exits the holdback sprocket, it must pass through a steeply angled roller to clear the tons and tons of conduit going to and from the projector before it is able to proceed to the ORC platter. Do you think having an angled roller pulling one side harder than the other off of the holdback sprocket could be the culprit? I am thinking "possibly".

Edit: Just remembered, it must pass through the sometimes-functional failsafe mechanism before the steeply angled roller, so I don't think that could stretch the sprockets.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-24-2002 01:09 PM

I know some people who have used a counterweight to increase tension on platters (such as hanging a heavy magnet on a takeup elevator or attaching a string to the end of a takeup arm, which was draped over something with a weight tied to the other end. However I wonder if it would be possible to use a counter weight to decrease tension on your junk-o-matic platters. Perhaps you could put a hook on the ceiling and attach a string to the elevator, loop it through the hook and experiment with various weights on the other end of the string. Not enough of course that it would affect normal operation, but enough so that it wouldn't come crashing down hard at the end of a show, and such that in general the elevator wouldn't have so much weight.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-24-2002 01:19 PM

To permanently stretch polyester print film, the film tension would have to GREATLY exceed the recommended maximum in SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 106-1999: Film Tension in 35-mm Motion-Picture Systems Operating Under 0.9 m/s (180 ft/min). This practice specifies the film tension needed to transport 35-mm motion-picture film through a film-handling system operating under 0.9 m/s (180 ft/min) while minimizing conditions that contribute to film damage. This practice also recommends methods for testing film tension.

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Peter Dougherty
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Maspeth, NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-24-2002 01:23 PM

Joe Said:

quote:
I think maybe the sprockets have been stretched due to

That's it! Some corn-shovelling operator-wannabee was practicing with the Film Stretcher while you weren't looking! Tell him to go out and get you another box of sprocket holes!!

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Rachel Gilardi
Madam Moderator

Posts: 2214
From: Peabody, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2007

posted 07-24-2002 02:29 PM

Joe, stop picking on my damn ORCs! In my 2 years of running the "super platters" I only had 1 brain wrap...and it was when I was learning. The Christie's I use now are much worse..

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-24-2002 02:32 PM

Peter said: "Tell him to go out and get you another box of sprocket holes!!"

Kodak recycles many billions of perforation punchouts ("chads") each year. The silver and base chemicals are recovered.

I suspect we got calls from both the Bush and Gore campaigns after the 2000 US Presidential election.

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Peter Dougherty
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Maspeth, NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-24-2002 03:31 PM

quote:
Kodak recycles many billions of perforation punchouts ("chads") each year. The silver and base chemicals are recovered.

Ahh, but those are punchouts--not the actual holes themselves. The boxes of holes have a different part number (04-01, if I'm correct ).

Around here, you get them in the same shoppe where you can get a bucket of Welders' Sparks.

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Cheers,
Peter, W2IRT

No trees were harmed in creating this message, however several thousand electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-24-2002 03:34 PM

Of course, there are different part numbers for KS, BH, DH and CS holes.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-24-2002 04:42 PM

Rachel--something is wrong with your Christies.

I've worked with AW3s made between 1979 and 1998 and have only managed to have one brainwrap, ever. That was in the last month, actually, and was the result of an attempt to change a trailer too fast (i.e. it wasn't the platter's fault). Actually, I like the older ones better, especially since they were recently converted to have removable brains--the motors don't squeak and they seem to pay out the film more smoothly than the newer ones.

My only complaint about the AW3 is that I've had several motor cards go bad in them, particuarly within the last few months.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 07-24-2002 05:32 PM

Out of curiosity, (don't try this at home, folks!) does "rewashing" a print help to fix this sort of thing?

--jhawk

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