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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Film, Vinyl, Digital (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Film, Vinyl, Digital
David Favel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 764
From: Ashburton, New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-21-2002 02:52 AM      Profile for David Favel   Email David Favel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the sad fact is that 80% of booth personnel will scratch prints.
This is reflected on everyone. (every T.V. commercial with a made up olden days clip has scratches all over)
Most of my prints, whether rejuvinated ex U.S.A. or ex first run from New Zealand have some degree of scratches.
Eventually we may get to the point of Digital Cinema being as good as the 20% of us who care enough to look after their prints. Perhaps the distributers will then lower their rentals to help us pay.
The religions of the world would unite, "left & right" would kiss & make up, everyone will live in peace & harmony.
Nah distributers reducing their take perhaps is a tad simplistic

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-21-2002 05:59 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If this whole D-Cinema exercise is to eliminate the cost of print distribution for the studios, and right now the exhibitor just gets a pittance of the ticket price with the bulk going to the distributor anyway, perhaps the answer is for theatre owners to simply get out of the exhibition business altogether. If the studios are so convinced that DLP is the answer to their economic woes and that saving print costs is will save their industry, then let THEM buy whatever digital system they want with the theatre owner simply running the concessions operation and then renting the booths to the distributor. The exhibitor would become a restaurateur, which is pretty much what his function is now, as well as the owner and operator of the physical plant. He'd be the landlord and the studio would actually be its own exhibitor -- antitrust be damned. Years of laissez-faire by the Justice Department and back peddling on the Parmount consent decrees has emasculated them to a point where if they were totally recinded tomorrow, it would barely be noticed. On almost every court challenge to most aspects of those decrees has gone in favor of the studios and against the theatre owners. Doesn't Sony own both Columbia Pictures, TriStar AND Loews/Cineplex/SonyTheatres? How did that come about with narry an eyebrow raised toward anti-trust issues by Justice?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-21-2002 08:25 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank Angel asked: "Doesn't Sony own both Columbia Pictures, TriStar AND Loews/Cineplex/SonyTheatres?"

Although there is much co-mingling of production/distribution and exhibition with today's media giants, AFAIK, Sony no longer has a stake in US Exhibition. There are some current links between telcoms, internet providers, distribution, exhibition, etc. For example Disney/ABC, AOL/Time Warner, Anschultz/Regal, etc.

Some links:
http://www.anschutzinvestments.com/group/group.html
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/apr2002/nf20020429_6456.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/sep2000/nf2000098_069.htm
http://www.media-alliance.org/mediafile/20-3/dmlp.html

Here's a link to "tongue in cheek" humor that is closer to reality than you may think:
http://www.flash.net/~pieper/features/pieper5.html

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-21-2002 11:41 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Thanks for that VERY funny piece. The thing that makes it so hysterical is that as you read it, you can almost believe it is true!

Frank

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 08-21-2002 12:06 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, they left out that French media giant, Vivendi-Universal, the company that now controls Universal and a chunk of USA Networks. Of course, Vivendi-Universal is now tetering on the brink of bankrupty and looking to sell some of these "assets"...

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-21-2002 12:14 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Bobby's observation is the turning point on which D-Cinema lives or dies. He said >I'm not sure about the numbers, but I think the last figure I saw claimed North America had about 30,000 commercial movie theater screens. That is a large, installed market with enough influence to keep directors and cinematographers shooting on film.< EXACTLY....it is so obvious that I can't believe this is rarely articulated in any of the discussions I've heard in the media about D-C. All the economics they ever talk about is the phantom billions and billions of dollars that will be saved by eliminating the cost of prints....hardly the full picture.

If all those theatres were owned and operated by the studios, this wouldn't even be a debate -- they would figure the bottom line and simply reinvest in digtal projection because it will save them money (or so everyone seems to keep saying). Unfortunately for TI and Huges, they don't own the theatres. The exhibitors who do will not save money by reinvesting but instead loose megabucks worth of the obsoleted 35mm hardware that they already own. It's an economic model that simply makes no sense and it will not work unless it is radically changed, but has anyone heard ANY discussion from the studios that THEY would invest in D-C? Has George Lucas told exhibitors that, hey, buy a DLP for my next 3 SW Episodes the percentage for your DLP screens will open at 30/70 instead of 90/10 and scale down from there with the 35mm screens getting the usual straight 90/10?. They all clammor about how much they want D-C, but no one is stepping up to the plate to absorb the cost. To think exhibition will do this out of the generosity of its heart for a technology that is not backward compatible and does not protect their existing hardware investment is, well, as ludicrous as it sounds and even a high school kid taking Economics 101 can see it is an unworkable model.

This debate has nothing to do with the quality of the digtal image -- we who are concerned about presentation have debated that long and fierce, but as Disney's Phil Barlow said, digital, even at this stage is "good enough" for him. So forget about whether it looks as good as film or not -- that's not what has stopped this technology in its tracks; it is the economics -- as they say, follow the money trail.

Frank

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-21-2002 12:17 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David-- you are very right about Vivendi trying to dump its Universal "assets" Here are a few recent articles that appeared in the Orlando Sentinel:

Yesterday, August 20, Front Page: Vivendi seeks to unload its Universal unit

...And Today, August 21: Cable chief makes plans for Universal

You'd think Dreamworks would be the first to jump on it...
=TMP=


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-21-2002 01:22 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But we all know digital is better and there will never be a problem with digital obscelesence Now why doesn't my new laptop accept my 5" floppies and my adam tape cartridges


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-21-2002 01:40 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have an ADAM in storage. Presuming it still runs I could tranfer your porn I mean data files to...hmm...was there ever a way to hook an ADAM up to something else?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-21-2002 01:48 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In fact the adam was popular along with the commedore 64 with some cleaver interfaces to the x10 products way back when

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-21-2002 02:44 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another digital "selling point" that is always trumpeted around is that "a studio could open a movie everywhere in the country at the same time."

Well a recent article in Boxoffice belies this. The article interviewed several smaller independent exhibitors, myself included. One of the topics was film terms. All of the exhibitors agreed that we would play more films on the break if the play time wasn't so extensive (4 or more weeks minimum for popular films). That's just too long for a small town, especially one with a single screen. We can go two weeks, or three with a blockbuster, but that's it. We only have 5,000 people to draw from, and half of those live 35 miles away.

The studio's explanation is that they want to maintain screen count during the critical first weeks, which is why they insist on those long playtimes.

My argument (which didn't make the article) is that there are several other small theaters within 150 miles of here that would be more than happy to use the film in week 2, 3, and 4 if we were only allowed to circuit. It's easy to get film to another town overnight. The screen count would stay the same. Their reaction is no, they want the same screen locked in for 4 weeks minimum. So we've passed on dozens of films.

So if that kind of criteria holds, the studios will still want those long deals and the smaller guys will still be stuck where we are now...4 or 5 weeks down the line. So there's another debunked digital selling point.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-21-2002 05:42 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the studios are indeed using the argument "maintaining screen count in the critical first weeks" for using DLP --then that is even more reason NOT to buy it.

The movie industry is already stinking rotten for its product having a very short shelf life. With what they are saying in promoting DLP is essentially a film will just hit a bunch of screens at once and then quickly be gone (in even faster fashion than "Spiderman" or "Episode II"). It all sounds to me like the distributors are regarding theaters as nothing more than a quick pay-per-view venue shortly before the film hits DVD and pay-cable. Just what in the hell are they trying to do anyway?

If they want to force DLP on exhibitors so they can do the theatrical release in extremely fast and temporary fashion, I would have even more reason to just invest in a D-Theater DVHS HDTV deck and watch the movie on a widescreen TV. Hell, I would get a better picture there than I would in DLP! On top of that, if what they seem to intend in their marketing model holds true, I'd have a DVHS or HD-DVD of the film before all the marketing ink was completely dry on the movie theater one sheets!


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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-22-2002 10:14 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is something from MSN that pretty much sums it all up.
The music industry's self-inflicted wounds

Josh


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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-22-2002 12:43 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby -- Why not just wait and watch it on your DLP projector at home ?

=TMP=
NOTE: The woman in the photo montage on that page summarizes what exhibitors will go through in relation to DLP: 1. The technology is so bad it's funny. 2. Oh my gosh! It actually caught on!?! 3. So sad that film is dead to an inferior format.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-22-2002 12:48 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The DLP used in the Sharp XV-Z9000U projector has a native 16:9 aspect ratio (no need for 1.5X or 1.9X anamorphic lens), and 1280 x 720 pixels. AFAIK, it does use a single chip and spinning filter wheel to show color.
Sharp XV-9000U DLP Projector Specifications

As I've said before, "Film Done Right" ALREADY offers MUCH better quality than can be achieved in home digital theatres, and IMHO, "Digital Done Right" in theatres must do the same.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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