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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Checking Dolby Level (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Checking Dolby Level
Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-08-2002 05:07 PM      Profile for Ken McFall   Email Ken McFall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I set the level, on Mono, and switch it to SR then I can see a difference on the led's, not much but a difference none the less. So it does make a difference. However, in the real world is it THAT noticable. After all all over the world there are guys, opps sexist comment, doing it differently....

There's no outcry about poor reproduction as a result... so is it that much of a concern. Provided the levels are indeed matched is it noticable.... we're not talking into the red just level.

I follow the manual and use Mono as with all processors and the labeling on the tone film itself. I make sure I'm the only one who does Dolby tone so there is consistency and no chance of any other trims being changed by mistake.

I've never had to check Dolby tone because of a sound problem, its checked as a matter of routine. Sometimes the levels have dropped and I've not been aware of it until I did a check.

People will continue to do it the way they have become familier with until they can have it demonstrated that there is a difference. So does it make a noticable difference within the auditorium?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-08-2002 06:10 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reason it is "critical" is that the noise reduction DEPENDS on the reference level (Dolby level) for proper tracking. It is quire level dependant...particularly at the lower levels. In the case of the Cat. 222SR/A...it is going to mistrack on the SR anyway but you should give it the best shot.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-08-2002 06:45 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

I recall you mentioning Cat 222SR/A with some distain a few times before -- are they really that bad? The museum is about to install in their CP55. Should I be expecting something less in audio quality from them?

And while we are on CP55's, can anyone tell me if the Subbass channel output is active in all formats or just the stereo formats? We just purchased a BGW Powered Subbass bin but unfortunately it does not fit behind the screen so it must be setup for each show. I don't want to have to schedule an extra crew person in to do this every time we run a mono print (quite often) if there is no output in 01 format.

Frank

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-08-2002 07:28 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Like Gordon said, you will have interaction between the preamp pots if you try to set Dolby Level for a CP-45 in Mono.

Unless, of course, there is a difference between the US and UK boards. I have some UK models so I may check it next time I'm near one of them.

If you use Dolby A to set the level (following the installation manual) you will get a different result than if you used SR -- I forget which, but one of them will be louder -- so there is apparently a difference between the formats.

Steve G: What exactly do you mean when you say that the 222 will "mistrack" ?


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-08-2002 07:43 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 222SR-A card is not a full blown SR card but a scaled back emulation

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-08-2002 08:55 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul said: "Mono".

Sorry to hear you're under the weather. Hope you feel better soon.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Rick Long Jr
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 211
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 10-08-2002 09:04 PM      Profile for Rick Long Jr   Email Rick Long Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Heres a stupid question. Does a CP 45 turn off the noise reduction when you are in mono? The reason I ask is that on every 45 I've ever installed I have noticed that the A-type LED on the 222 SR/A card stays lit even when you select mono. I have tried setting the levels in both mono and 04 and have found no difference. Whereas with every other processor there is a definite difference (50,55,65,200,500)
The signal path block diagram does show lines for NR bypass for L and R, but does not indicate when, or if they are utilized.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 10-08-2002 09:05 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cat. 222 SR/A card actually uses dolby type S chips, not SR. THAT is why they do not track properly in SR or sound spitty. That is what I was told.

Josh

Anyone have an SRA-5 they want to trade for a 222SR/A

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 10-09-2002 04:51 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now I am really getting confused. I thought the CP65 used a single Cat. 222 for 'A', and two Cat. 350s for SR. This is what the ones I have seen have. Reading the previous posts in this thread, and the Dolby parts list which somebody kindly sent me a few weeks ago, it now seems that there are three Cat. 222s:

Cat 222 A Two channels of 'A'
Cat 222 B Two channels of 'SR'
Cat 222 SR/A Two channels of each type.

Have I understood this much correctly?

The Cat. 222 B is described as: "Two-channel IC based SR upgrade module" Does this mean that it is a card which could replace a Cat. 222 A, or that it is just some chips which can be added to some existing card? If it is a card, and you have to remove the Cat. 222A to fit it then how do you play 'A' type films? Dou you have to swap cards to do it? Why would you want to fit a Cat. 222B anyway, if the CP-65 already has SR playback via the two Cat. 350s? Were some CP 65s made without the SR capability?

If the Cat. 222 SR/A provides inferior quality SR, why would you want to do it that way? The Cat. 222 SR/A is an expensive card, 1315 pounds in the list I have, the Cat. 222A is listed at 565 pounds, and the Cat. 350 at 595 pounds, so two Cat 350s plus a Cat 222A would cost 1755 pounds, not a great deal more than one Cat. 222 SR/A.

To confuse things even further, not only can a two channel 222 now do SR, as well as A but it seems there is a CP65 300, were the Cat. 350s are replaced by Cat. 300s, which can do 'A' as well as 'SR'. This is said to be for format 42, what is this? Is it one of the magnetic formats? I didn't think the CP 65 could handle Dolby encoded magnetic.

I assumed that when you selected A type playback then the card in the Cat. 222 slot would be used, and when you selected SR that the cards in the Cat. 350 slots would be used. If a single card in the Cat. 222 slot can be used for SR, and two cards in the Cat. 350 slots can be used for A type, how does the processor know which cards it should be using? What would happen if you fitted a Cat. 222 SR/A, plus two Cat. 300s, you would seem to have two of everything?

What is a DPN 98500 Mag./Optical signal routing card.

Finally, why do Dolby still produce the CP65, which I think is one of the best processors they have made, but will only supply them to studios and dubbing theatres, and why does their web site seem to be so lacking in technical information?

I think that's enough questions for today, thanks for any answers you can give.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 10-09-2002 04:53 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There seems to by just a small tiny difference when I flip between mono and Dolby A. Its noting to write home about. But now at lease I can make sure it is perfect when switched to mono.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-09-2002 09:07 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Originally yes that was the scheme
later they went to the single combo card to reduce cost

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Michael Harlow
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 170
From: Faversham, Kent, UK
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 10-09-2002 10:57 AM      Profile for Michael Harlow   Email Michael Harlow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have a CP55 and use format 01 or non sync. It seems to work, We have had a laser conversion put in and since then we have never had to adjust the level using the Dolby tone !

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-09-2002 11:35 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How often does one need to run Dolby loops when using LED reverse scan soundheads? I've mostly dealt with exciter-lamp/slit-lens setups (which can sound great when set up properly) and have been told that Dolby levels should be set once every month or so and whenever the exciter lamp is replaced; presumably this is due to bulb darkening over time. In practice, I haven't found much difference from month to month.


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Jon Bartow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-09-2002 12:41 PM      Profile for Jon Bartow   Email Jon Bartow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It varies quite a bit with the reverse scan readers. Some of them just stay put for what seems like forever and all you have to do is clean the LED and lens. For others it seems like every routine I have to turn up the Dolby level

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Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-09-2002 06:14 PM      Profile for Ken McFall   Email Ken McFall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some reverse scan readers were originally set to low gain and the LED's were set at a higher current to get the required level. This could result in the output levels of the LED's deteriorating and the Dolbly gains having to be increased. However if the reader cards were set to high gain then the current of the LED's would be reduced and the output levels of the LED's levels would remain constant for longer. The lower the LED current the cooler they will run and the longer they will last.

As for how often do you check Dolby levels... how long is a length of string? I normally make it a routine to check it once a month, unless I have reason to suspect there is a problem.


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