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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: Checking Dolby Level
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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 10-12-2002 10:30 AM
As Steve Guttag indicated, the important thing is to turn the NR off when setting Dolby tone. Otherwise you will get an error of about 1dB due to the subtractive feedback in the NR circuit. This is because in most Dolby processors the LED meter is affected by the NR subtraction. So selecting Mono (Format 01) in Dolby processors turns the NR subtraction off.A 1dB error might not seem like much but it can be enough to cause slight audible mistracking, particularly with A-type, which is less tolerant of errors than SR. (Note that with Panastereo processors the LED meter is independent of the NR subtraction so any format can be selected when setting Dolby tone. A more sensible approach wouldn't you agree?)  ------------------ Ray Derrick President/Chief Engineer Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935
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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 10-12-2002 12:19 PM
Brad, you will no doubt recall the discussion on this forum a little while back about the wide variations in calibration of test films in general. This is a serious problem, particularly for manufacturers of sound related equipment and is something we have been looking at quite closely in recent times. Test films can vary in a number of crucial parameters including amplitude, lateral position, azimuth and frequency response.Whilst we have certainly come up with a method of verifying the lateral position of the soundtrack (we bought an expensive measurement microscope and compare our test films to the relevant SMPTE standards), we have not yet determined a reliable and highly accurate way to verify such things as level and frequency response characteristics. But we are exploring several ways of doing this. In the meantime I would suggest the following: For Cat69T Dolby tone if you have several batches of NEW (unworn) stock which disagree with each other, choose the batch with the lowest output level and use it as your reference. It is better to err on the side of setting your preamp gain too high than too low for several reasons. Too low a setting may cause pumping of low level dialogue particularly with Dolby A films, whereas setting the gain too high will make things sound a bit brighter, the latter being less objectionable than the former. Secondly, film prints themselves will vary in calibration from one to the next so once again, erring on the high gain side will give less objectionable errors. For cat69P we have found that the most recent (pale pink coloured) stock has the flattest response. The dark pink stuff has a severe roll off in the 16kHz - 20kHz region and the old B&W stock is not a whole lot better (at least not using red LED readers). For cat97 (left/right) the important thing is lateral alignment and you can compare your stock by carefully overlaying it with some BT-35. Cat 97 has two alternate burst sine wave signals printed as a negative soundtrack running down the centre of each track, wheras BT-35 has two square wave signals runing down the outer edges of the soundtrack area. Using a magnifier you can check that the outer edges of the Cat97 waveforms are both exacty the same distance from the inner edges of the BT-35 square waves. Be careful to accurately align the edges of the two films on the soundtrack side. That is the best I can offer at this stage, but we are working on it. Maybe someone from Dolby can offer something more conclusive as they make the stuff! ------------------ Ray Derrick President/Chief Engineer Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935
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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-12-2002 10:57 PM
Ray, at one point I got a tone loop that I *think* Ultra Stereo made. When I compared it to many of my Dolby tone loops I found out that the Ultra appeared to be dead on, while the Dolby loops were recorded WAY too low. End result, when I would force-default the processor level set with the Ultra loop, the digital to analog conversion appeared to keep the same volume level. When I did that on a processor set from the Dolby loop, the analog was way too loud!!! Problem is I think I accidentally left that Ultra loop at a theater I was servicing as I can't find it.Playing analog A prints also has a horrendous amount of distortion in the audio when the actual Dolby loops are used. The level meters will pin themselves during program material. I am hoping that I just got a bad batch, but even if that is the case that really blows. Our pal Steve Guttag has devised some way of verifying Dolby tone, but he hasn't shared it yet. Steve? 
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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 10-13-2002 03:17 AM
Brad, I would suspect that your Dolby tone loops must have been faulty, not just out of calibration, to cause such a large deviation, or else there was some other factor at play. The Dolby tone sine wave (which incidentally is 850Hz) should (theoretically) occupy exactly 50% of the maxium available track width for each track. If you consider for example that a reduction in the width of 10% of the Dolby tone sine wave will result in a loss of level of just 0.9dB, it would take a fairly large error to cause such an obvious difference as you have experienced. It is possible to measure the peak to peak excursion of the Dolby tone sine wave with a microscope to verify that it occupies the correct track width for a 50% modulated signal, but this is complicated by the fact that the level of the tone could vary quite significantly along a short section of film and yet still average out to give a correct reading on a meter. If the Ultra 50% tone is considered to be more accurate, maybe Clint can let us know how they verify that their stock is "on the money". Of course, any consistant difference between Dolby's and Ultra's 50% levels may come down to one company's definition of 100% modulation vs the other's. The maximum track width "available" per track for SVA prints is set down in the SMPTE standards. However I seem to recall that the standards are not specific on whether you should consider 100% modulation to be the entire available track width, or something a little less to allow say, for sideways weave. I also seem to recall that Dolby uses something less (like maybe 90%), but I do not recall exactly what that something is. Where is Steve Guttag when you need him? This is one of the problems when individual companies are permitted to set their own standards. ------------------ Ray Derrick President/Chief Engineer Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935
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