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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Brenkert lense holder issue (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: Brenkert lense holder issue
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-22-2002 11:50 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam,
If you are serious about restoring the head annd making it right then you should go ahead and just tear it down completely. At least to the point that you can feel all the rotating shafts in their bearings. Also, the bronze splines in the framing assy are very prone to getting sloppy. Sometimes replacing those is the only choice. New splines makes framing them really nice and tight. Another thing to point out that is VERY important is the fibre cone gear in the shutter drive assy. This is a failure prone gear if thigs are not set up properly. There is a replacement through Wolk for these but the quality of the fibre is questionable and sometimes they don't last too long even when new. If you have a head that has an original gear it should be preserved till you have the machine running and setup correctly. Its easy to tell an original as they were made from a dark reddish brown phenolic and the new replacement gears are a much lighter in color and have a very corse weave in the fibre material used to make the phenolic. Not trying to confuse you here but the original Brenkert fibre gear will last for ever if the rest of the machine is in good shape. Also, the BX-80 manual here on Film-Tech has step by step instructions for removal of any assembly. This is in case you are a bit nervous about just tearing into it. Its a complex machine but if you read, and re-read the manual over several times you'll learn it faster than you think. Another point that is important is that not many of the steel parts in a Brenkert are hardened like the parts in a Century, or Simplex. So if a shaft is stuck don't beat on it with a hammer and drift punch! Carefuly use an arbor press. Same for the intermittent parts with the exception of the sprocket. It is hardened. Be careful and don't force anything!!!!!
Mark @ CLACO


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Dick Prather
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 10-23-2002 01:05 AM      Profile for Dick Prather   Email Dick Prather   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam,
You mention the black soundhead drive gear said Simplex. That sounds like it might be the wrong gear if you are using a Brenkert to a RCA 9030. That will make a noise because the gear pitch is different than the 9030. Normally a RCA drive gear is red phenolic and never says Simplex. The oil slingers have different a thickness on a 9030 and they must be in the right position. I think there are 3 types on that model also a spacer inside next to the bronze gear that must be there. Correct gear woulb be first guess. Good luck.
Dick

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 10-23-2002 01:13 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you completely tear it down like Mark suggests, Don't dismount the shuttershaft bracket from the projector casting.

You could spend hours trying to get that thing set up right when you re-install it. (Personally, I never was successful in doing that where it runs true and free without the rear shaft binding on the front shaft and dragging it along with it. That'll raise hell with the bevel gear which cannot handle much of a driving load.) If there is a trick to it, I never learned that trick. The 48-tooth bevel gear the BX-80 uses does not like that kind of a load. The BX-100 uses a 40-tooth bevel, and is much more forgiving.

Also, you said:

quote:
But heres the deal with that, the gear assembly I have has the following pieces to it, starting from oil cap to end:
Shaft, washer, bearing, washer, gear (marked Simplex, black plastic), shaft. How many washers are there supposed to be and should there be one between the inside gear and the frame of the BX housing?

Yes...there is a thin steel spacer that goes between the end of the pinion gear and the BX housing. It is there to prevent the thrust from chewing up the BX housing, since it is cast aluminum.

The rest sounds OK - but Dick raised a question about the gear itself, and he is absolutely correct. Now I raise the question if there may be a Simplex pinion installed....and if there is, there could be a problem although it would probably run. However, it will cause major damage to the double-faced intermediate gear in the process over a short period of time. That double faced gear is very expensive! The Brenkert pinion is massive, but the Simplex pinion is, at best, "Whimpy!"



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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 10-23-2002 07:15 AM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam, like John was saying these things can look pretty nasty. But once you get it running to your satisfaction, disassemble the flim side and take everything out and paint the parts. Also strip the door shutter guards, etc. and repaint...it will look like a million bucks when you're done.


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Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 10-23-2002 08:56 PM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks great Jeff.
I guess I am going to stick with the 4 " lens mount and just pick up a couple of adapters. As far as the shutter issue goes, I tore into the thing this afternoon and checked the gears. I found the large bevel gear looks original and the teeth look good on the thing as well as two shutter bevel gears that connect to it. I could find no play in either shaft. I felt no binding or anything that would indicate a problem. However I did find the top feed sprocket was rubbing against the stripper to the point that it was leaving a mark on the sprocket. Straightened that out easily enough. Moved the cooling fan out just a little. The unit sounds pretty good now except for the simplex drive gear. That thing whines. Tried adjusted the head forward and backward to eliminate it but I can only minimize it.

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.

KC5ZSL


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Dick Prather
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 10-23-2002 11:05 PM      Profile for Dick Prather   Email Dick Prather   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam,
Due to the pitch differance the Simplex drive gear will always whine. Untill the Simplex gear just gets worn down many months or years from now you will never get the noise out. It will quiet down when you get the correct RCA gear for it. It's just the reverse. The large soundhead fiber drive gear is what is different not the pinion gear.
Dick


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Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 10-23-2002 11:12 PM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
According to the manual the large gear that connects to the soundhead is the same for almost all projectors but the inside pinion gear is different which is what you guys where saying. Gonna try and get one of them. $$$$$$
The drive gear on the sound gear still moves in and out so I guess I am going to have to check into that again as well.
According to the manual there are three different types of oil deflectors on the 9030 sound head with there being four on the unit. Two of them are the same part number and the other two are different.
How the hell would I determine the difference other than replacing all. $$$$$
And finally, my lenses are super cinephors and one is marked SERIES III and measures 2 3/4" in diameter. Is the 4" lense called series 1?
When I ask for an adapter what do I ask for exactly?
Series 1 to Series 3 adapter?

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.

KC5ZSL

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

- posted 10-25-2002 06:39 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's the big fibre drive gear on the outside that's making the whine. Just tell 'em you need a fibre drive gear for a Brenkert. The part number is listed in the manual. The 4" adaptors are made for standard sized (70.6mm?)lenses. If you've got a wierd lens that's smaller, like a Holmes lens, wrap it in something before putting it in the adaptor.

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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 10-25-2002 06:54 AM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"The drive gear on the sound gear still moves in and out so I guess I am going to have to check into that again as well."

Sam, if this is the drive shaft into the projector head, there's a set screw on rear of the head that holds the drive shaft in place. (ref Brenkert BX 40/80 manual) It needs tightened.

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Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 10-25-2002 07:46 AM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Jeff,
Its the soundhead constant speed shaft that is going in and out. Plays havoc with the pad roller.
Anyway, I guess maybe I sould have just bought a new christy or something

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.

KC5ZSL

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 10-25-2002 03:01 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam, if you are experiencing lateral thrusts of the CS shaft, the gearbox spacers, springs, and all that happy BS is not properly assembled.

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Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 10-25-2002 03:38 PM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats what I figure.
I think I located the noise in the BX80.
I removed the intermittant and all the gears except for the bottom drive gears and started putting them in one by and the noise came back when I installed the intermittant. The shutter assembly was quite as a mouse before I installed the intermittant.
At this point I guess I am just going to keep running it till it dies or replace/repair the intermittant or the whole unit.
As far as the original post subject goes I have decided to leave the 4" holder in place and just pick up a couple of adapters.
On the subject of the intermittant, is there anything I can do or look for? What about rebuilding it? I am really bummed out on this.
Thanks!

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.

KC5ZSL


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 10-25-2002 05:23 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sam, don't get too bummed out about this. When you get it running, you'll be proud of that machine.

Check the fiber/steal tooth gear in the compensator assy. I have seen some chewed up from time to time, and that will cause some problems. I would suggest looking for a parts machine. They are fairly cheap and easy to come by....there are still plenty of them laying around in old theatre basements.

As far as the movement is concerned, how does it roll through by hand? Is there a binding in it?

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Sam Hunter
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 779
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 10-25-2002 07:29 PM      Profile for Sam Hunter   Email Sam Hunter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As far as binding goes I havent been able to make it bind and with it out it rolls noisy. Like bearings or something but the shafts are tight with no play in them. I looked at the star wheel closely and could see no damage or worn areas. I will be on the lookout for another machine for parts anyway.

------------------
Samual Hunter Sr.

KC5ZSL

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 10-25-2002 09:59 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Couldn't be bearing noise, since there are no ball bearings in the Brenkert Movement. Only bushings. I would suspect the two gears.....just a thought.

If you dismantle part of the movement, be very careful. There is a retainer plate on the cam and if the movement is pulled apart with the roller pin indexed in the starwheel, you'll bend the crap out of the retainer plate.


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