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Author Topic: Hey, you, you rule! (AKA: Praising good film handlers) Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-07-2007 01:25 PM                     Touchy is the wrong word to describe this group. They are professionals and they expect anyone joining in on the discussion is either a fellow professional or is someone learning with a strong desire to be a professional. It might also interest you to know that properly done, film looks better than D-cinema. You have to see it done properly first though to believe it. Unfortunately poor training and improperly maintained equipment is what plagues this industry. You should be able to run a print 1000 times without the slightest speck of dust or mark on the print. If you cannot do that, you are doing something wrong.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-07-2007 03:41 PM                        i simply don't understand the argument that one problem is irrelevant just because another bigger problem can be identified. they should all be corrected. sometimes it's the little problems that cumulatively become big problems, as is the case with chopped frames. i have seen literally dozens of films in first-run theaters with dialogue over a reel change that's missing phonemes, even whole syllables. sometimes more if there's a fadeout that's been lopped off. then look what happens when these operators get to handle the odd rep print for a midnight show. you need a yardstick to measure the missing film. is it any wonder rep prints are in such shit shape when poor practices like this are institutionalized?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-07-2007 05:32 PM                     I think the best way to look at it is no problem that effects presentation is too small  |  IP: Logged Tim Asten Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Brighton, United Kingdom Registered: Nov 2006 posted 02-07-2007 05:57 PM                     Brad.Please dont get me wrong,I have every respect for professionals.I to,dispite what people may think,am one.But I think we are fighting a loosing battle with film presentation.the whole industry seems to be geared toward making as much money as possible with little regard to making quality films and as for the way they look onscreen,well, standards have definitely dropped.You have to admit print quality,even first run prints,tend to look soft and jittery, probably due to the fact that so many are made with scant sympathy for quality control.Over worked,poorly paid projection staff who dont get paid enough to worry about putting on a good show.badly maintained equipment is another problem with cinema chains spending as little as possible.also the demise of high quality formats like 70mm is another nail in the coffin of high quality presentation.All of this you know.I dont want to sound all doom and gloom,but I feel a bit sorry for proper projectionists who have high standards as they must feel a sense of fustration.As regards Digital Cinema,all I am saying is that an extremly good picture and sound can be had by just pressing a couple of buttons by a non qualified person.This must be Mana from Heaven for your average film distributor.And I think they will win in the end.But all of this,dispite trying to run a 15 screen multiplex-largly single manning-does not mean I dont try to do the best job that I can.I have a keen interest in this industry..honest  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-07-2007 07:21 PM                     Okay fine...given all that you just stated....what does that have to do with not only condoning but actually participating in the removal of frames? There are things in this world you can't fix/change and those that you can...cutting frames is something YOU can overcome if only in your little portion of the world. Some of the other items you listed are also within your power to overcome for at least those that visit your cinema(s). In short, all of the other ills in the process does not condone ore lessen the wrong of adding to a diminished film going experience. As for DCinema...financially, it still doesn't work. The technology doesn't bring in one more ticket and it is many times more expensive to buy into and to keep as compared to film. Those that are not paying for it may not see that but somebody is footing the bill and will continue to have increasing expenses relating to keeping the DCinema equipment not only working but up to date. Steve  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 02-07-2007 07:56 PM                        I don't work in a booth but if I did I'd do the best I could with the stuff under my control. Even if every other aspect of "my" theatre was crap, I'd try to limit my contribution to that crap, to the extent possible. Sound and/or image disruptions caused by missing frames are disconcerting to the audience.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-07-2007 09:17 PM                     Since I run a booth in a discount house, I get prints used, thus the leads have been cut -some were sloppily cut and some with no ID REFERENCE frame (which is a horrible for me since I just don't know if the booth clown who reassembled the print right with the correct head leads..this is where I try to see if the cut matches between leader and the roll..from the ETS factories) on the head leads..and even no leads are reattached - just the ends taped down. What's even worse, is when a print comes in like this, no reference frames on both ends and tails out. Now, I cut new for the simple purpose that I want to make 'my own' splices - not take anybody elses splices as my own. For, we don't know how their splicer was - was it out of alignment, is the punch and die assembly aligned properly..et.al. ? For, I've tried it a few times with cleaning the existing cuts and just do the resplice over the existing cuts. But with sad experiences with hopping frames in the gate assemblies when those splices go through since the existing holes in the sprocket holes were cut different causing the hopping, I said "forget it" and do cuts so I can clean and smooth splices, thus my presentations are smooth running in the machines. My presentation isn't going to look trashy as the cinemas that are run either by booth clowns or "usher bees" -Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-07-2007 10:44 PM                     MONTE!!! You can always bloop the soundtrack if there is a gap between the ends of the film. If there is an overlap and your projector jumps, then your projector is out of alignment (or is just a lousy design) because an overlap splice with tape is still less thick than a cement splice and all projectors back into their origination were designed to handle it. Don't cut more frames!  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 02-07-2007 11:20 PM                        Personally, I peel. It bugs me that everyone else here cuts the frame to get rid of the splice. But I got that good habit, from some bad habits. Working at Carmike, I noticed our continuous use trailers (DTS, Policy, Etc.) were getting shorter and shorter. Some starting 1/4-1/3 way into the trailer. I realised, like any tape, that it can be peeled off, with no frame loss. At my current booth, I raised hell over it, and now everyone peels, at least when I'm around. I explained what cutting eventually does, and that I won't have my DTS trailers, that I worked so hard trying to get, ruined. And that goes for everything else, ads/trailers/movies.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-07-2007 11:54 PM                     Sorry Brad..didn't mean to confuse you a bit there, but it's not the blooping that is my problem for I've blooped many-a-splices, if necessary, when running prints in optical by making trangular pieces of bloop spots that fits right in the soundtrack area using electrical tape-works pretty good. It's when the film was punched with someone elses splicer that the dieteeth from other splicer reams out the sprocketholes in this existing splice area which causes the framehop in the trap when the splice goes through when it hits the intermittent sprocket (plus, being a rather noisy splice anywho due to uneven teeth spacing from that other splicer's punch). ... and this is what really gets me to no end and that's why I cut.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-08-2007 12:39 AM                     That's a very rare situation though. Your post makes it sound like you do this more than once a year for those rare exceptions.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-08-2007 02:00 AM                     ..yet, I can see where you're coming from with all of this since the basis of this whole site is to be of an instructional tool in as well as a good reference point for all who seeks what they desire in this industry - sorta helping those along with these forums since you can't be everywhere all the time showing them everything.  |  IP: Logged Alex Grueneberg Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Aug 2004 posted 02-08-2007 02:21 AM                        I was unaware removing the old tape was the preferred method, not cutting the frame on used prints. I find it odd that no one ever told me that . Also, Hey! I did'nt want to become an "uuh-sure b". It just happened.. I sware!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-08-2007 02:47 AM                     quote: Alex Grueneberg I find it odd that no one ever told me that . ..simply that a booth training program was designed for the workers in an "Wal-mart" (K.I.S.S) atmosphere - no skills or special training is needed, just do as your trained and told. And you had to accept that is why you didn't know any different. One could say, "blind leading the blind", but that isn't a fair description, for the blind leader didn't know of such a practice either. Nobody's blaming you whatsoever..just the way it is.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-08-2007 08:15 AM                     Monte, Please join the rest of us in second run and use the wonderful ID images here in this site. It is a real God-send to have those images, thanks to Brad. KEN  |  IP: Logged

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