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Author Topic: DTS without timecode Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-04-2002 03:00 PM                     No biggie Karen. I just want to make sure that when someone asks a question on the forum that it is resolved either here on the forum, or is resolved off of the forum and the proper solution/answer is posted so that it is archived. Lots of people turn to the search engine on this forum for an answer to a technical problem, and when something is asked and not answered, it only wastes people's time, wastes bandwidth and such practice is against forum policy. By the way, please edit your posts instead of posting repeatedly.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 12-04-2002 08:55 PM                     I thought this topic was going to be about running DTS disks without timecode _on the film_ which I only recently learned is done fairly often in the large format world.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-04-2002 10:49 PM                     Just wait for that "timecode converter" so you can mod your DA20 to output timecode to feed your DTS decoder, thus gaining the ability to play DTS on a hypothetical print that has DTS discs and Dolby Digital, but no DTS timecode. No hypothetical example for why you'd want to do this comes to mind... --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-05-2002 09:56 AM                        Karen, With DVD you could have some advantages: - Just one disk for ALL movies - No compressed sound, as many channels as you want - All kind of extra (subtitles, trailers, demo, setup and more) Yes, the price is that all actual units has CD-ROM players... Bye  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-05-2002 11:56 AM                        Thanks Antonio. I think you misunderstood my comments. I said the way we "CURRENTLY encode sound for movies" you'd get no extra benefit from DVD vs CD-ROM discs. At present, only the DTS-CSS system uses DVD discs and drives. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-06-2002 05:37 AM                        Karen, Yes, of course. With the current code the benefit would be just the one disk for all... In this case the DVD format won't be so needed! Why don't you install DVD players? They are compatible with CDs and in a near future with a software upgrade you could change the entire player in a different one. Just a tought... Bye  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 12-06-2002 12:11 PM                        Decoding isn't done by software, it's done by the hardware. So it would really be a hardware update, that is if they could make compatible hardware to update the current players with. The one disc advantage (using DVD) really isn't an advantage anyway. If one disc gets shipped to you, you'll almost always get the second. Plus it's a lot easier to run across town to copy someone elses disc to CD-R than it is to a recordable DVD.  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-06-2002 12:59 PM                        We don't presently use DVD drives on our standard players because all the players have and support CD-ROM drives. It is not like the CDs you buy at your local music store. CD-ROMs contain software and are like the discs used to download programs onto computers. You cannot play a CD-ROM disc with a DVD drive and visa versa on our players. For now, we are sticking with CD-ROM for cinema discs. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-06-2002 04:34 PM                    John, that would be pointless. What would be useful would be a timecode generator driven by a sprocket-driven shaft encoder (pulse generator) that could easily attach in place of the existing TC reader. This would enable workprints which of course have no TC to be played in any theatre without the hassle of bringing in mag dubbers (or dubber + MUT). Just put the audio on CD/R's. The TC generator would be a small PDA sized box with a few keys for entering a reel number (or telling it that the show is going to run as a single strand. And a button to push to indicate that picture start is in the gate. Then when the projector rolls so does time code and so does the DTS player which would be entirely standard. This is one area where the fact that DTS is a double system actually works to advantage.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-06-2002 05:04 PM                     JSK makes a reader that looks like a DTS reader but has a sprocket and it generates biphase and timecode  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-06-2002 05:37 PM                        Kinoton E-series projectors can also be configured to generate biphase.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-06-2002 11:55 PM                     Yeah, Steve, I know it's pointless...perhaps I failed to get the tongue-in-cheekness of the word "hypothetical" across. I'm under the impression that DTS supports reading SMPTE timecode instead of DTS timecode. Presumably Karen or someone with some special venue experience (Jan? Gordon?) could tell us more about how this works, but presumably the SMPTE timecode doesn't encode a feature serial #, so it just plays the current feature (and trailers are unsupported)? Apparently jumper block W1 on the D422 board has two relevent settings: code: W1 Position Function 1 SMPTE timecode enable 2 Don't read user bits not sure what position 2 really does, but it means something else when 1 is disabled. [...goes away and does some research...] Ah yes, here we go. The SMPTE timecode spec includes an idea of timecode bits, and then extra "user bits." If "ignore user bits is unset," the DTS 6D expects the user bits to contain the serial number. Also, it appears that DTS reels become SMPTE hours, and there is a 9 reel limit. So 10 minutes into reel 2 would be SMPTE timecode 02:10:00.00. How to generate SMPTE timecode? Well, presumably there are a bunch of timecode generators available. DTS makes one, the E175 timecode convertor. It can generate DTS timecode as well as SMPTE timecode, actually, and it reads a biphase input. And you can even program it with a serial number to use on DTS timecode. "So there you go." It's all about marketting now. Of course, the E175 manual is dated 1999, so it looks like the marketting could use a bigger push. Not too many people who run seperates, I guess... Might be cheaper to build your own SMPTE timecode generator though (or your own DTS timecode generator, it's not obfuscated...). --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-09-2002 12:58 PM                        There is a unit called the E175 that is a timecode converter. It can convert SMPTE timecode to DTS. It can also convert TACH to DTS or SMPTE timecode. This unit is used for special venue and not in "standard" theaters. There is no need for it in "standrd" theaters. With specical venue, we sometimes have to convert sound material that uses SMPTE or TACH for sync. In these cases, the DTS reader is not used. Instaed, the E175 sends timecode info to the player. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 12-10-2002 05:21 AM                        BTW, what exactly IS bi-phase? I am aware that it is a transmission method which uses phase shifts rather than pulse modulation, but is that it? Or are there other differences to timecode?  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-10-2002 07:24 AM                    Bi-phase is what many shaft encoders put out: On / off pulses (duty cycle: 50% on / 50% off), so many per revolution (typically mounted to film equipment so they put out 50 or 100 pulses per frame). There are two output lines each carrying an identical pulse stream offset by 90 degrees. Which is leading and which is lagging identifies the direction of rotation. Typically voltage levels are TTL (about 0-.5+ for off, 4.5-5.5+ for on).  |  IP: Logged

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