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Author Topic: Dolby Fader Levels Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2003 05:47 PM                     I think the biggest confusion here is that most people assume that my 6 is equal to your 6 which is equal to the theater down the road's 6 which is also equal to the theater in the next state's 6 and so forth. Not so. Adam put it best. Acoustics and calibration will make a WORLD of difference. Good acoustics and good EQing I find commonly ends up running movies at 7. Good acoustics but poor EQing generally ends up at 6. Poor acoustics and poor EQing commonly plays at 5 and so forth. They both interact with each other. No two rooms will ever sound the same (they may be similar, but not exactly the same). Also no two faders will ever perfectly match if you go by the numbering scheme. Those numbers, like Steve said, are just there for convenience. And shame on the Mod III for not putting any markings on there. I used to work at a theater that had one of these and when we would do double-ups on that screen we couldn't just leave a note that said "matinee movie = 6 / evening movie = 6 3/4". Oh no, we had to leave notes like "turn the evening movie up about 1/8 inch with the matinee movie about 1/2 inch down from CAL" and so forth. Foolish! The numbers are a guide for booth staff and for the tech to reference 85db at 7, nothing more. Antonio, Die Another Day was recorded insanely loud. Even at theaters that normally run most movies around 6 1/2 - 7 was running this latest Bond film at 4-5. Often the center channel had to be brought up a couple db too for this particular film so the dialogue wouldn't be lost.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-01-2003 06:20 PM                        quote: Often the center channel had to be brought up a couple db too for this particular film so the dialogue wouldn't be lost. We had to do this with "Ghost Ship"... something I was extremely reluctant to play with because I'd had a tech (with gear I haven't bought yet) come in and align my whole place. It had to be done though... you couldn't hear the dialogue at all through the other stuff going on.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-02-2003 03:36 PM                        Brad, Thanks, 007 isn't arrived yet in Italy... Let me make a question: if a movie is recorder soooo loud that you have to set it at 4.0, the dynamic range of this movie will be the same if recorded at a "normal" level and projected at 7.0? Bye  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-02-2003 03:39 PM                     Well, the track could always get quieter, but recording at such a loud level kills the option for the mixers to make certain scenes louder than others, as they are already near the point of clipping. My bet is that Die Another Day was recorded like that because most theaters leave their faders at one setting and they wanted to make sure it played as loud as possible (understanding that most people set their faders on the trailers and leave it for the feature). Personally I would do exactly the opposite. I would record my films lower so that a fader that normally runs movies at 7 would have to be played at 8. This would not only be such a drastic difference in level between the trailers and feature thus requiring the projectionist to change the setting at the start of the feature, but it would also give me more "power" when I wanted it.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-02-2003 05:09 PM                        Brad, I agree with you. Why destroying a soundtrack just because there are bad theaters/projectionists in the world? However, I feel that 3.5 is not an usable fader, even with a very loud movie. As many of you said, most Dolby's fader drop drastically under 3.0. Loud or not I believe that 3.5 is a symptom of something wrong. But I can be wrong. Bye  |  IP: Logged Christopher Seo Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 530 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-03-2003 03:14 AM                     According to at least the CP650 fader characteristics, a setting of 3.5 is 20 dB below 7.0. That certainly indicates some kind of B-chain calibration error(s).  |  IP: Logged Jean-Michel Grin Expert Film Handler Posts: 222 From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-03-2003 03:27 AM                        It's not a easy job to set the level right: We receiving a lot of complaints from patrons they find the level too loud or too weak. For example I play the comercials and the trailers, recorded in Dolby SR or SRD at 3,5 on the CP500. And rising up the volume at the begining of the main feature in a range of the fader setting between 5 up to 6.5. Everything depent of the movie.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-03-2003 02:56 PM                        Jean-Michel I know that movie's fader is not always the same and that promo, trailer and adv are often to be projected at a very low volume. But I believe that 3.5 is too low for everything!!! It may be the movie, but I just suspect something wrong in the B-chain setup or in the DTS level settings. Bye  |  IP: Logged Jean-Michel Grin Expert Film Handler Posts: 222 From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-03-2003 05:02 PM                        Antonio, Thanks for your advice, but I assure you that all dolby processors ave been carfully adjusted with A THX R2 analyser. The guilty becomes to the sound mixing studio they mix the sound of the comercials too loud. and the patrons will complaint seriously. That's why I reduce the level at the main fader. But I dislike when a sucker projectionist put the volume all the way down. It seems to me like watching a a movie on my TV set with a poor sound And last week I've checked all Dolby level with a Cat 69T test loop and I assure you that all DTS 6 an DTS 6D are adjusted on 300 mv, a tipical level for the CP 500 and 650. The problem come from the peoples they dislike a real digital sound. In 1998 I visited the Cinema Expo in Amsterdam and saw the first premiere of the movie Godzilla. The level setting of the CP500 was 8.5 ! Damned; my ears was painful for one day later ! Bye, happy new year and I beg your pardon for my weak english  |  IP: Logged Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 01-03-2003 05:19 PM                        Well seem to find that in my THX screen most major films like LOTR II and Harry Potter II run at fader 5, but in the other two screens, need to run at 6, all runing SRD. Very rarely i have to run at 7 in any screen apart from when screening old Variable Denisty mono tracks. All adverts and trailers run at 4 or 4.5 Max in the THX screen and 4.5 in the other two screens. Once you know your theatre you tend to be able to guess a fader setting at the start and then go check it in the auditorium ASAP once the film is running. When rehearsing films to myself i tend to like films loud, but also make sure i have a fader level checked for Public screeings. Darren.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-03-2003 05:39 PM                        Jean Michel I didn't mean that your system had bad B-Chain, you said that you keep film between 5 and 6.5 and it is a resonable fader for a sound system. Let's ignore the adv, I also was used to show adv at 3.5 once... What I beleive is that if you need to show a MOVIE at 3.5 so, I believe, there is something wrong with the B-Chain. Let's count the acoustic, the speaker, the EQ... 3.5 is always too low for me also for a poor theater acoustic. I watched Godzilla at 7.2 and my ears was painful too... But was a great experience!!! Ehi, you are from Europlex: your society just bought Kinepolis theater in Italy. I have a friend of mine in that multiplex!! Bye  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-04-2003 01:28 AM                     When we opened Bond, the faders were set at 6.5. This was in a THX theater and we had no complaints to my knowledge.  |  IP: Logged Jean-Michel Grin Expert Film Handler Posts: 222 From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-05-2003 10:19 AM                        Yes Antonio, We bought screens in Italy. Last years and in december 2001 we opened two multiplexes in Greece and in september 2003 we will open 8 new screens in Lausanne (Switzerland) Con tutti Cinemeccanica V5 I hope this year or the next made vacations in Italy, but for this moment I'm too bussy. Bye  |  IP: Logged Karen Hultgren Master Film Handler Posts: 492 From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-07-2003 12:02 PM                        A fader level of 3.5 seems way too low. Something is not right. As far as DTS is concerned, we ask that the DTS levels be set to match the cinema processor (CP). To do that, use the DTS "DS3" setup disc's tones and set the DTS outputs for 300mV RMS (unplug the DTS player from the CP and use the E313 break-out board with a multimeter). The 300mV RMS level should match yout CP's buss level. Consult your CP's manual to be sure it's buss level is 300mV RMS. Karen at DTS khultgren@dtsonline.com  |  IP: Logged Jean-Michel Grin Expert Film Handler Posts: 222 From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-07-2003 02:25 PM                        Hello Kareen, Nice to meet you. I have really checked the outputs of my DTS-6 with the DS3 setup disc. It was 300 mv and everithing work fine. The problem that we have comming from the peoples in the auditorium (the patrons ? Sorry, my english is too weak) they don't like listen the sound too loud for the commercials and the trailers. They don't care about it, and many time theses peoples complaint at the projectionist and ask to reduce the fader level. I'ts a shame for me, I really like a powerfull sound; this is a part of the magical at the movie theater. But you know, patrons rules and many time the manager notify to me to reduce the fader level because the patrons complaints. I remenber me one way, I played the movie "Revelation" a movie about the danger of smoking. The soundtrack and the dialogues was verry quiet. And so I played with the fader on "6". A lady come to me and told me: Are you crazy ? the sound is too loud ! Reduce it now ! I've reduced the level to "4" The dialogue was just audible.But the lady come back one more time and asked to me: Are you stupid ? I told you to reduce the volume. That's unbeliveble Sir ! I will complaint me on your boss ! You see the problem is fron ours customers... But for me a minima level seting for enjoy a movie not should be less than 6,5 on a processor Kareen I have a question: In a precedent thread you talking about a periodical check of the power supply voltage on a DTS Reader. Could you Mail me the procedure, I can't find it on my DTS book. Thank you, happy new year, and appologises for my really weak English ! Best regards,  |  IP: Logged

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