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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Why white leader at the end of film? (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Why white leader at the end of film? John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-14-2003 12:28 PM                        Antonio: I agree with Brad that having 30 to 60 seconds worth of tail leader is really not a big deal in terms of the time it takes to run through the projector, and it keeps the end of the print MUCH cleaner. If you can't afford real leader, just use an old trailer (but be sure you don't accidently play the picture or sound on it). If you don't have an on-line film cleaner (Why don't you? ), you definitely need to clean the leaders between uses, as they will tend to pick up alot of dirt that you want to remove before it contaminates the print or equipment. Of course, an on-line film cleaner is highly recommended and very affordable for the obvious improvement in image cleanliness that it provides.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-14-2003 12:31 PM                        quote: Yes, there must be a tail leader to prevent the dirt to transfer to the final part of the film, but I believe that 1/2 round at the end of the film are enough... What do you think? 1/2 = one half 1 - 2 = one to two IMHO, 5 wraps is not excessive. You need to have at least enough film to go all the way through the projector, across the floor (loosely) through the take-up side of the tree and a wrap or two around the film. Otherwise you're going to see dirt at the end of the credits. You've pulled off a perfect show so far, why ruin it at the end? If waiting for the end of the tail to go through (I don't know what else you have to do that you can't wait) is not an option, see if your tech can rewire your failsafes so that they do not shutdown the machine after the end-show cue has gone through the machine.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-14-2003 12:33 PM                     I'm not going to argue this with you Antonio. The answer to your question is no. The end of the movie has to AT LEAST be back on the takeup platter with one revolution before the tail runs through the projector. That is bare minimum, more is preferred. This sort of thing is not "exaggerated" to any caring professional. I agree with Daryl that your technician needs to set up your automation to close the douser or turn off the lamp and keep the projector motor running for an auto-tail out. Firing up the projector to run the last several feet through is unnecessary stress on the mechanism and is a foolish way to set things up. If instead of motoring the tail through you are unthreading where the projector stops, then that is even more damaging to the end of the movie.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-14-2003 12:40 PM                        quote: However my reply want to analyze a more general question: are sometimes some "film done right" procedures too "exaggerated" if conpared to the real projection job? Forgot that part. In a word, NO! I find most of the time they are understated. As for metres to feet, multiply by 3.3 to go from metres to feet. You'll end up pretty close.  |  IP: Logged William Phillips Expert Film Handler Posts: 117 From: Cardigan, Wales, UK Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-14-2003 01:00 PM                        I have a tower system but still put about 100ft of tail leader onto every print. Not for identification but as protection. My tower is a Westrex that is mounted horizontaly, the distance from payout spool to projector is 20 feet. The tower is also at right angles to the machine. There have been a few ocasions in the past that if you dont catch the tail of the film as it runs off the payout spool the film will find something to catch itself on, and a jam will happen. So now at the end of the film the tail leader is some form of triacatate so if a jam happens then it will snap easily.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-14-2003 02:03 PM                        Brad, But I believe that 2 wrap around the end of the film can be enought to have the end of the film on the takeup platter while the tail is running out of the projector. More (john) we have film cleaning system (not so good but we have one!) so, really, I believe that with a cleaning system just 2 wrap around the end of the movie can be enough, I admit that without a cleaning system more wrap is recommended. About have the projector running out the tail by itself: I just have an idea, perhaps it is possibile (Vector 1000). But when I go to the projector to unload it, I do not strike again the lamp, just start the motor. Despite my english I do not want to question the "film done right" procedures. It is a way of doing our job at best. I just found that sometimes few of them are just a bit incompatible with the rythm of a modern multiplex. On my old 1-screen theater I had all the time I want and I clean the print by hand weekly. It is not believable to clean a film in a multiplex (that is why someone create film cleaner!!! ) Bye Antonio  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-14-2003 02:11 PM                        The more tail leader, the better. And old trailers are free. Hopefully you can cue your automation to close the dowser and switch the sound back to non-sync as the tail leader goes through.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-14-2003 02:16 PM                        FWIW, I've always found I've had more free time running 10 screens than 2. Two wraps would probably be about 18' on most features. That would probably just make it on to the deck.  |  IP: Logged Michael Barry Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 584 From: Sydney, NSW, Australia Registered: Nov 1999 posted 02-16-2003 07:37 AM                     I remember having this exact conversation with a major theatre chain when I started projecting there. They had no extra tail added to their prints at all - just what the lab supplied with the final reel, which is certainly not enough to avoid film damage. As a result, the final credits suffered some pretty horrendous emulsion scratching and even creasing. When we had our first projection meeting, this was one of the points I addressed. I suggested 50 feet of extra tail, but the objection that was raised was that there may not be enough time during tight schedules to allow the extra film to run through. I pointed out that 50 feet of film runs through in just over 30 seconds, and that if they cannot allow an extra 30 seconds, then they have very serious problems with scheduling! Of course I mentioned that this will save the end of each print. Unfortunately, they just weren't interested. How sad. The other major objection they raised with all the revisions in film-handling technique that I suggested was that they would take too much time, and that they were too pressed for time. How can there be not enough time to perform the job correctly? You either do the job or you don't. Interestingly, there seemed to be plenty of time for other (mandatory) tasks that had nothing to do with improving the results on the screen that customers were paying to see! An example of such a task would be dusting the handrail in the concrete stairwell that connected the projection rooms on a regular basis. I left that job soon after, as it was too frustrating trying to run a quality presentation with co-workers who paid plenty of corporate-speak lip-service about 'quality presentation' this and that, but when it came to the crunch (which is what their tail leaders always did!), it was just that - corporate lip service, rather than a genuine commitment to get the best possible show on the screen. Now I work with John Wilson again. (hey John! ). 'Nuff said.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-16-2003 11:26 AM                        I've check on my booth during these days (since I really don't know how much feets or meters are my "ideal" tail leader) and I agree that 30 seconds are the minimum lenght to have a "film done right". I still believe that more than 45s is unecessary! Bye Antonio  |  IP: Logged

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