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Author Topic: connecting dvd to DA20 + CP65 Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-01-2003 12:18 AM                     To answer about receiver sample rates, all should handle normal 44.1kHz rates off of music CD and 48kHz off DVD. But the real question comes in when rates like 88.2kHz, 96kHz and 192kHz come into play. I've seen a lot of gobbledygook in various manuals where they claim the receiver will handle such rates. Same for regular non-DVD-A compliant DVD players. But without the digital interconnect to (such as Firewire) that built in capability is about as useful as tits on a bull. As an observation, most standard DVD players will downsample any high-rez audio track. For example, the "Seven" Platinum Edition DVD has a 2.0 channel 96kHz LPCM version of the opening title credit (along with DD-EX and DTS-ES 6.1). The bitrate of that track is 4096kb/s. My DVD players and any others I've tried downsample it to 48kHz. I think you have to really get into the fine print about whether or not a receiver will allow a 5.1 analog input signal to stay analog and go straight to the amps. And even if that is preserved, you're still dealing with "mid-fi" quality digital/analog converters in most DVD-A players themselves. Still, in principal, I think it is a good idea for the music industry to try to pursue a higher quality audio standard --even if it means for now the only place where that higher quality is displayed is on the actual master. And to get back on topic, a DVD-A player is likely your best bet to hook up to a theatrical cinema processor because of all the decoded formats you get out of that 5.1 analog output.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 04-01-2003 12:24 AM                        What about the typical sampling rate at which incoming analogue data are converted by the receiver for internal processing?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 04-01-2003 02:42 PM                        OK, Bhaskar, I see you have reported to the thread as THE FIRST ASIAN MEMBER! Well, William Bunch is in Japan, but he is from the US (but I put him on the list because it is about geographical distribution). 1. Basically upsampling means that the player reads data recorded at lower sampling rates than 192 kHz (such as 44,1/48/96) and tries to fill in the "blank" spots to effectively achieve 192 kHz by analysing the signal and trying to "reconstruct" those samples. 2. You would bypass the CP`s equaliser and that would likely compromise the sound quality in the auditorium. Plus, it would be much easier to switch formats from film to DVD by simply pushing a button rather than rewiring the amps. Then you could make direct comparisons of the sound quality of film and DVD sources.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-01-2003 05:18 PM                     An incoming signal of 5.1 analog audio has no sample rate. It is just an analog signal not containing digital samples. Now the quality of that analog signal will depend on what the D/A converter the DVD player did to it before it was converted into the analog domain. My understanding is the D/A converters in a DVD-A or SACD player will do the conversion at the native sample rate of the track being played back and not downsample it to something like 44.1kHz. MLP material on DVD-A would normally be 5.1 with 96,000 24-bit samples per second, or 2.0 channel 24-bit with 192,000 samples per second. SACD's DSD format is a 1-bit delta modulation process using 2.8 million samples per second (someone please correct me if that number is wrong). If the DVD-A or SACD player downsampled the signal before converting it to analog for output/playback, then what would even be the point on buying such a player, right?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 04-01-2003 05:52 PM                        quote: An incoming signal of 5.1 analog audio has no sample rate. It is just an analog signal not containing digital samples. Oh, really ? Maybe I didn`t make quite clear what I meant. I meant if you have a high class SACD or DVD-A player which would output the analogue using a high quality D/A converter without downsampling (just like you described). But then you would still need to amplify the signals, so you plug it into a 6-channel receiver and THAT would convert the incoming analogue signals at 44,1 kHz for internal digital processing. Or are there receivers out there now which can sample incoming analogue at 96 or even 192 kHz?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-02-2003 12:10 AM                     A receiver might be able to apply any number of sample rates to an incoming analog signal, but that would still be bad. The way DVD-A and MLP is set up, there should be absolutely no digital treatment to the signal after it leaves the player. The process of digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion is not perfect. You get a generational loss of quality. Going through one D/A stage is a necessary evil for amplification. Putting the signal though D/A, A/D and D/A again is terrible. Most DVD-A and SACD players have decent, but not high end, D/A converters. So that's one problem. You're not going to get the full 24-bits worth of oomph out of that MLP track. Current electronics are just not capable of it. Limits in the D/A unit, electrical resistance and interference and other factors trim away audio quality. That's the reason I argue for a Firewire digital output. Those who can at least afford high end D/A units in a top quality surround controller (and then use mono-block amps) would be able to use the Firewire connection to preserve more audio quality upon playback. That would be closer to an "audiophile" solution. If a receiver forces any DVD-A or SACD signal to go from analog back into digital and then back to analog, it would be no more than a "mid-fi" setup. The end user would be better off watching music videos on standard DVD and probably get audio just as good from DD and DTS.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-02-2003 11:46 PM                     To answer the original question (how to hook a dvd player to a DA20 +CP-65). The answer is easy, though a bit pricey for some. As has been noted, the DA-20 is strictly a film decoder. It can not and will not deal with pro or consumer AC-3...sorry. Dolby does make the DMA-8 though (Digital Media Adapter) that will let just about any Cinema processor, including the CP-65 have a means for dealing with pro and consumer AC-3 plus a whole lot more. It handles Dolby-E (broadcast) and is an 8-channel D/A converter plust can handle several different inputs with automatic switching. http://www.dolby.com/products/DMA8/ http://www.dolby.com/products/DMA8/mp_br_0112_DMA8.pdf (brochure in pdf form). The unit lists for $6,000 so it isn't the inexpensive way out but it will let the typical cinema handle the typical pro/broadcast audio. Steve  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 05-03-2003 08:17 AM                        But why? If there is already a good DVD player with good analogue outputs at hand, why buy the DMA8?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-03-2003 09:10 AM                     "Wow. I'm really confused. Do I move this to "The Afterlife" forum for home theater or not?" _________________________________________________________________ There are many of us that wish you'd move to the afterlife! Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-04-2003 11:02 AM                     The DMA-8 is more than just a DVD decoder....and most DVD players do not have 5.1 analog outputs. As I stated before, the DMA-8 will handle consumer and Professional AC-3, PCM (up to 8-channels), Dolby-E (up to 8-channels) and allow one to use a common "digital" input on their analog processor, like the CP-65. It has 4 AES-pairs on a DB25 connector, analog 5.1 input, TOSLINK, Coax BNC input and a Coax RCA input. These inputs may be prioritized so that will will select the highest priority valid digital data. In addition to the front panel buttons (digital media and Film), you can control the unit via RS-232 so if you have a Crestron or AMX type controller one can integrate the film system and video system better. Again, the DMA-8 is not and will not be for every theatre...it all depends on your needs. In my opinion, the DMA-8 is overpriced and is severely lacking information/control on its front panel (there are just the two buttons with associated LEDs...no channel indicators, no mode indicators). If one has a computer, then you can see what it is doing and control it better. Now if you theatre plans to run professional video shows (festivals and rentals) then the DMA-8 can offer some good value. That digibeta tape could have PCM, AC-3 or Dolby-E on it (and you won't know in advance...trust me)...the DMA-8 deals with it all and provides the audio out in analog form at the typical Dolby buss level of 300mV without having to rewire your system. Steve  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-11-2005 02:35 PM                 It has been 677 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-11-2005 02:35 PM                     The question I have after looking this over is this: If you've got a player with 6chan out, what processor is best suited to take that input into it's aux for the best audio quality? Also, what options do those of us with optical out's on the DVD player have? [EDIT: Answered my own question looking at specs on the DMA8 ]. Though, that does bring up another question, is the DMA8 the only option for those of us with an S/PDIF output from the DVD player who want to use a CP65 or similar processor? I'd like to move all of my audio processing needs into a single unit, say a CP65 so that I can play DVD's, Games, and 35mm (when I can afford to build a screening room) out of one box.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 03-12-2005 07:17 AM                     We have a CP65 that I made a patch panel for. The panel goes to the digital inputs on back of the processor. We hook up DVD players (6 Channel), VCR's, and Beta decks. It works fine. The only problem with DVD is the sub level. Can't seem to get it quite loud enough.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-12-2005 12:24 PM                     That's interesting...Is there a trick to making the patch panel? I never really got into anything more than swapping out boards in the CP650's at my old job.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 03-12-2005 01:30 PM                     I used a single rack space blank panel and drilled 6 holes for chassis mount female 1/4" phone plugs. We use it for any line level signal other than film, including a microphone. It's wired directly into the digital in inputs on back of the CP65.  |  IP: Logged

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