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Author Topic: Attached Trailers Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-29-2003 06:09 AM                        I don't trust the "framelines" that are printed between attached trailers and the start of the feature to which they are attached. I've seen a more than a few such markings that aren't actually on the frameline. I know some people will disagree, but I just cut a dozen or so frames past the fadeout of the attached trailer (fewer if I'm not going to actually use the attached trailer). This preserves a good amount of the black leader and allows a nice pause before the feature for the lights to finish dimming and for the audience to get settled. I do leave the first frame of the MPAA ratings band attached to the R1 head as a sort of "reference frame"--not because I plan to reattach the trailer (I don't...sorry), but so that the next theatre will know that the cut was made in-frame if they will be running the print reel-to-reel.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-29-2003 01:07 PM                    quote: I can tell you that it's extremely rare for me to find a trailer re-attached to a print I don't think hardly anyone goes through the trouble to re-attach the trailer once it's been removed. So I find it a stupid assumption on the part of film execs to think that just because the thing is attached it has a better chance of being played. I just received a used (presumably for a premiere of some sort) print that came to us without the attached trailer for its opening week, and of course we don't have that trailer in stock either. And... it's MANDATORY from our corporate office! If it's mandatory, send it to me, and I'll attach it.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-29-2003 01:15 PM                        One thing to remember is that it's relatively easy to add the negative for the trailer to the beginning of reel 1, so all the release prints have the "attached" trailer without a splice in the print. Bottom line: it's simpler than printing the trailer separately. The thing that's hard to understand is why go through the trouble of attaching trailers in positive assembly or at the exchange, where each of thousands of prints needs to have the trailer spliced on. Take alot of extra work, and just adds to the chance for an error.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-29-2003 03:10 PM                     Aaron, If you look between the end of the attached trailer and the beginning of the feature and look closely at the analog sound track, 9 times out of 10 there is a blip in the analog track where the two thin lines are interrupted. This is the place to cut. It won't always be in frame though! There are two ways of determining the proper frameline on making your cut. Make a dot with a Sharpie marker on the inboard edge between sprockets (opposite the soundtrack) beside the blip in the analog track, then run the film forward or backward (whichever is easiest) until you get to an obvious frame line, put the film in a frame counter and wind up until you get to your "dot" marker. If it is in frame, great. If not, make a more obvious mark, pull it off and cut it (one frame over on each side to lose the analog blip and the marks). On Warner Bros films they will have about 10 feet of black in between the end of the attached trailer and the beginning of the feature. As such, there are two analog blips (one at the beginning of the black stretch and one at the end). I cut at the first one. If you feel the pause before the feature is too long, you can always trim off a few feet. That's the long way. Here's the short way. Within a foot of the analog blip there is always a light line that is visible across the frame if held directly up to a bright light. That line is always in frame. From there, just count over a few frames to the analog blip point for your cut. Neumade splicers are extra convenient here, for their registration block is exactly 8 frames long. Regarding trailers, on the last day of an engagement I am now teaching to remove any policy, sound logos or ads from the film. This prevents breakdown damage to those snipes that must run thousands upon thousands of times should the film slip or the center ring give. It also allows the breakdown projectionist to let the entire trailer pack pull right off onto reel 1 for shipping back to the depot. Since first run theaters really don't need 10 million trailers in their cabinet, it is now my policy to try and help out the theaters who don't get their films on the break. They would've just been thrown away anyway, as the studios don't pay for return shipping and the theaters certainly won't foot the bill. Plus when the next guy get it, odds are there will be a smile on his face when he received a pristine print with a full trailer pack.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-29-2003 06:00 PM                        There's good and bad side. If I get a print with multiple trailers attached, I have to go thru and ID all of them, and (usually) pull out at least one or two that we aren't going to play, or have already played. But don't get me wrong...it's great to get attached trailers with a print. It's saved our butt more than once. In the ideal world, the best thing would be to include a list of what's attached. The only way THAT would work is if every theatre down the road would keep the list updated. Yeah, like THAT would happen.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 04-29-2003 06:54 PM                    Don complained: This is twice this month that the trailer that I attached was the same as what the studio had placed on their print. Are you too lazy to look to see what it is first? At best it's identified in the scribbles on the leader. At worst you have to take a minute or two to wind it down on the bench to see the title. Another instance of the never ending quest to shave seconds and minutes off the job.  |  IP: Logged Don Anderson Master Film Handler Posts: 312 From: West Bend, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-29-2003 09:52 PM                     No Steve, I'm not lazy. Perhaps too busy. I work for a small theatre. I tear down and build up all prints, do all equipment and building repairs (with phone help from American Cinema), clean ,do all paperwork, change signage, recordings, one sheets, inventory, sell and or tear tickets, sell concessions at times, program latenight shows, and more. I simply would like the studios to forget placing trailers on their print. Let us do it. Seems like most of you yank them off anyways. Plus, the studios usually end up shipping me the same trailers to boot. Ugh.  |  IP: Logged Mark Maxwell Film Handler Posts: 55 From: Tyler, TX, USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 04-30-2003 12:33 AM                     As far as cutting attached trailors, I've always believed that what comes on those reels is what they want shown. As far as someone being lazy, I wouldn't say that anyone who took their' off time to search online, find this website, and start posting replies, and looking for advise to be lazy. When I first started I was trained to do things I wouldn't even admit to now.  |  IP: Logged William Leland III Master Film Handler Posts: 336 From: Charleston, SC, Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-30-2003 02:07 PM                        I agree, that attached trailers suck. They create more of a problem than help us out. I always have problems splicing back on the attached trailer to our policy. I remember when we got "Blackhawk Down" and the studio wanted 6' of black tape (loose in the can) put on before the opening credits. They also had an attached trailer. They had put "guide lines" in the cans telling projectioninst what order to put the attached trailer and black tape. It made no sense to me, lucky for us we had 2 prints, I did it the way I thought they had wanted it and my way. My way, needless to say, was correct and had to go back and correct it the 2nd print.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-30-2003 02:55 PM                    quote: Seems like most of you yank them off anyways. Not only do they get yanked off, but when the movie on the trailer comes out, they usually get thrown away! Also, as for being lazy, remember that we don't all run our own single auditorium theater. Some of us work under strict time restrictions and are forced to do a lot of build ups and break downs and trailer changes and commercial changes, and a lot of other work in a short couple of hours. Some of us even have to move digital readers and processors around too. I'm not complaining at all. Just reminding folks that time is short for some of us, so stupid stuff like trailers attached to a print are just one more thing to slow us down in our quest to do film right! Especially when you get a print with a trailer attached, with a note in the can that says "please remove the trailer and discard it." Anyone ever have THAT happen? I have.  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-30-2003 03:34 PM                     I get pretty busy on Thursdays. I've used the 'I work for a chain and don't have time' excuse myself on several occasions. However, I can't fathon someone not having time to at least check the attached trailer even if they don't cut it to insert a policy snipe. And I'll say it again, I'm pretty sure the reason studios attach trailers is because that way they can claim it is part of the feature and therefore, by the booking contract, must be played. I've heard of more than one theatre getting in trouble with the studios for not playing attached trailers.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-30-2003 03:44 PM                        quote: And I'll say it again, I'm pretty sure the reason studios attach trailers is because that way they can claim it is part of the feature and therefore, by the booking contract, must be played. And, it's easier to print the attached trailer as part of the printing negative for reel 1.  |  IP: Logged Paul Salley Expert Film Handler Posts: 105 From: Liberal, Kansas Registered: Jan 2001 posted 04-30-2003 04:15 PM                  Most of the time if I'm unsure about what trailer is attached, first off I look here at Film-Tech, second if it's a DTS print then take a quick peek at the DTS disks most of the time it will have the attached trailer on the feature disks.  |  IP: Logged Nicholas Roznovsky Expert Film Handler Posts: 156 From: College Station, TX, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-01-2003 12:01 AM                        quote: Just reminding folks that time is short for some of us, so stupid stuff like trailers attached to a print are just one more thing to slow us down in our quest to do film right! "Film Done Right" is more than just technical know-how, it's providing a presentation that's top quality, start to finish. Honestly, your paying customers won't care how clean your booth floor is or how properly ventilated your sound rack may be when they're sitting through the same lame five minute trailer for the second time. It may not be as glorious or fulfilling as taking care of machinery or the main print, but "stupid" trailers are an important part of making up prints. Also, as for time constraints, prints rarely show up on Thursday night. If attachments are a big concern, it doesn't hurt to pop them out before it's time to build them up and see what's going on. It's a lot easier to sort things out when it's not late at night and you're working on your fourth or fifth print. If I went somewhere and had to sit through the same trailer twice, I wouldn't go back. It's definitely worth the few extra minutes to make sure your presentation is quality. It's definitely worth the extra time checking while building up the print as opposed to getting complaints from customers and having to spend even more time the next night or between shows yanking the redundant trailer out. I honestly can't remember getting a print without one or two obnoxious letters telling me what would happen to me if I cut attached trailers. Often, I get these threatening letters in my UPS and FedEx deliveries too. Maybe they're targeting me specifically ( ), but the distributors seem to make a pretty good fuss about what's attached. And, if they don't, you can always make a two minute call to the distributor's regional office to get running time and attachments info. Should you have to? No, of course not, but in the end it is your theater's presentation quality which is on the line. Your customers won't leave thinking "Those jerks at Warner Brothers didn't tell the theater about that attached print." They'll leave thinking that you don't care enough about your presentation to check what's making it on the screen.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-01-2003 12:27 AM                        quote: prints rarely show up on Thursday night Huh? I normally only do theatre work on Thursdays and it's been a while since I've seen a print show up _before_ Thursday night for a Friday night opening. And, recently, one place I work has had several that didn't show up until Friday morning (usually 11:30 or so for a 1:15 screening). This is a platter house that shows mostly first-run art product. It isn't really a problem as long as the shipper informs the theatre in advance (two hours is plenty of time to inspect and platter a print unless it requires major repairs), but I certainly haven't been seeing Tuesday or Wednesday deliveries around here.  |  IP: Logged

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