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Author Topic: Is EX dead? Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-01-2004 11:03 AM                     Didn't DTS come out with a "surround system" that would set off strobes, fog, etc. in the auditorium when triggered by the timecode? (I think it was mentioned here before, used on The Lost World?) THAT is what theaters need to do. Something that people can't replicate in their homes. More sound channels won't do anything since most people don't notice the ones that are there already. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-01-2004 11:42 AM                     The trailer for "Jurassic Park: The Lost World" had a strobe light system that synched to the time code. I never saw the trailer, but can only sensibly guess the strobe lights synched to the lightning flashes in the trailer. I'm not sure how far this off the screen effects thing can be taken, although it is very easy to synchronize using time code. What else can be done besides fog and strobe lights? Maybe there can be a big fart smelling up the auditorium, with South Park's "Cartman" going, "Aw, you guys!" I disagree about audiences not noticing more channels of sound. The EX thing is not discrete, so that weakens its effect. The DTS XD-10 can play discrete 6.1, 7.1, 9.1 etc. The film studios just have to create a sound mix for it to play. Right now they're just not doing it. DTS made a mistake in introducing the XD-10 without introducing a cinema processor that could take full advantage of its various channel layouts. IMHO, DTS should have worked with a company like Panastereo to develop a 12 channel cinema processor. That would have been the ticket.  |  IP: Logged Antonio Marcheselli Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1260 From: Florence, Italy Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-29-2004 12:10 AM                        I've just received the Italian copy of "The Village". I saw the 5-digit serial on the DTS disks and the "DTS-ES" logo on the disks. On the film can there is "SRD - DTS" On the Titles there is "SRD - DTS" Our CP650 does not recognize the EX flag. The film is listed in the EX encoded film on DOlby's site. Ok, The Village has three or four surround effects, but the question is another: why should I spend money on EX equipment if then I have to guess by myself when a movie is on EX or not???? I can bet that 99% of Italian's cinema are not projecting "The VIllage" in EX/ES. Is the same there? Bye A  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-29-2004 06:34 AM                        quote: Antonio Marcheselli why should I spend money on EX equipment if then I have to guess by myself when a movie is on EX or not???? Antonio....you hit it right on the head; if the studio that releases a title doesn't promote the sound process in its ads and lobby displays, why on earth would an exhibitor spend a penny more than he has to, to upgrade his system? And I am not totally convinced that audiences can hear the extra channels; you tell 'em you've got 360 degree sound and by George, 80 percent of them with swear they hear sound coming from directly behind them. We call our sound system Six Channel Total Surround MegaSound. Now, "Total Surround" already implies that no matter how many channels you add, you can't get much more "surround" than TOTAL surround. Besides, "not for nuthin" as they say here in Brooklyn, total surround says it directly; can be easily and more readily understood by the average Joe than if you said we had DTS-EX, which by the way, is the same as Dolby-ES, which is even MORE confusing to the patron. Now if we could only get patrons to grow ears in the back of their heads.....heh heh. And as for the off-screen effects -- critics have always lambasted films were the special effects are not seamless but draw attention to themselves instead of serving the film; and this is when they are PART of the film. So it pretty much goes without saying that when you are talking about strobe lights flashing or buzzers going off under the seats apart from the film, critics won't be taking to kindly to that kind of schstick. Do that kind of thing and you're getting closer to a movie "ride" than a real movie. How do you prevent these effects from being nothing but gimmicks when they are off- screen? Probably not possible. And as Bobby said, maybe a few strobe effects, maybe a mirror ball, perhaps some fog....this kind of stuff would get hokey really fast -- and how many of them could producers come up with before they start straining to get the gimmicks, however awkward and tortured, into the script? Was it THE TINGLER, where they had a skeleton rigged to come out of a little curtained cage and travel across the theatre and then back again while Vincent Price seemingly controlled it with strings. Only thing was, all us kids stayed for the second and third shows so we could try to whack it off it's rigging by thrown anything that could be wadded into a ball at it the second it started out its hiding place. Naw, that stuff is better kept in amusement parks.  |  IP: Logged Don Furr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 509 From: Sun City, Ca USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 10-29-2004 07:44 AM                     Frank...... Close but no cigar The skeleton was used in House On Haunted Hill. Don  |  IP: Logged Edward Jurich Master Film Handler Posts: 305 From: Las Vegas USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-29-2004 09:11 AM                     Could it be possible that most of the theater going public really don't care if it's EX, ES, DTS, POS, ETC. We run optical Dolby and get comments on how good the sound is. There is probably a small percentage of audience that is into audio enough to seek out special audio formats.  |  IP: Logged Timothy Eiler Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Litchfield , Minnesota, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-29-2004 02:44 PM                        quote: Edward Jurich Could it be possible that most of the theater going public really don't care if it's EX, ES, DTS, POS, ETC. Or I could be they can't tell the difference. A Local megaplex had a digital auditorium since day one but recently put up the Dolby Digital poster. They then Received numerous e-mail complementing them on How great the new sound system sounds  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-29-2004 06:44 PM                     quote: Edward Jurich Could it be possible that most of the theater going public really don't care if it's EX, ES, DTS, POS, ETC. Really depends on what area of the country you are in and so on. Now those that live in Floodsburg Mo. have probably not ever heard of EX, but a place like Chicago, Salt Lake City, or San Fransisco typically uses those terms as household words. There are certainly exceptions to that too. Take Casper, WY. and they have more EX screens per person in that town than most do. But then the majority of the State of Wyoming is very "movie going" anyway. Mark  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 10-29-2004 07:05 PM                        OK... playing devil's advocate for the moment: Do any of you really believe that, in a town full of theatres playing "movie X", more customers will seek out the theatre that is playing the show in EX? Digital? DLP? ... enough so that the investment would clearly be to the benefit of the exhibitor? The sneak I saw of Team America, was clearly analog, and the picture was noticeably angled on the right... as if the aperture had been cut by someone on something. Oh... and the lamp needed changing... it was wandering all over the place, though the screen seemed fairly well lit. Still, the sellout crowd had a great time, and I never heard anyone suggest there was something wrong with the presentation because of a perception it wasn't the best that the industry could offer. The only reaction to the presentation itself was a collective groan over some of the cheesy rolling stock. I tend to agree that exhibitors can get caught up in the "it's good enough" mentality... but from watching some of these audiences, I also can see why.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-29-2004 07:26 PM                     I don't think most people go to the trouble of driving a few extra miles to see a particular movie at a different, better equipped theater. However, I would say viewers do remember their good experiences at one theater from the bad at another and develop habits on where they see their movies. Here in Lawton, the Carmike theater has been competing with a newer yet much lower quality theater in Central Mall. For a good while many people went to the mall theater just for the convenience of location. But over time the Carmike's numbers have been improving as the mall theater botched shows, had out of focus projection and crap quality sound. Another external factor has been driving more people to the Carmike: all the incorigible teenagers in the mall theater. Not only do they get a higher quality movie going experience at the Carmike, but they're also getting one that's much less likely to be disrupted. Once Carmike's stadium seating conversion is complete their numbers should spike even higher. I'm hoping that will happen, it may make it more likely that Carmike will add on a couple new screens to the site. I think they'll need to do so in part to make up for seats lost in the stadium conversion.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 10-29-2004 07:42 PM                        Good points, Bobby. However, you added elements that weren't included in the variables I started with. All else being equal, my interest is really in whether a properly equipped SA or simple DA20 install would be shunned by the movie-going public, were the "latest and greatest" audio and visual gizmoes available within a reasonable driving distance. It seems to me that people are creatures of habit... enough so that EX and DLP... maybe even digital over well-done SA might not be impressive enough to get them to move over to a different theatre that had spent the money on that stuff. But then, there's the basic argument that pits exhibitors against people who really do understand such stuff... and the question may never be resolved to the satisfaction of both sides.  |  IP: Logged Edward Jurich Master Film Handler Posts: 305 From: Las Vegas USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-30-2004 01:33 AM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Really depends on what area of the country you are in and so on In our case we are in the Kansas City market and people are gaging us against AMC. Besides commenting on good sound and picture, they love the fact that it's a quiet experience. No pre-show, just closed curtain and music.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-30-2004 11:25 AM                     quote: Edward Jurich Could it be possible that most of the theater going public really don't care if it's EX, ES, DTS, POS, ETC. I get a few teachers, alumni and benefactors of the college who ask me what the difference between our equipment and Tinseltown's equipment is. I tell them, "The only difference between them and us that we don't have digital sound." That surprises them right there. Somehow they think that the kind of equipment Tinseltown uses is some sort of secret. Then they realize that our overall presentation is a little bit better than theirs. (Primarily because our projector is attended 100% of the time during shows but also because I spend more time working on our system to keep in in top shape.) I think the thing that surprises people is that we put on a better show WITHOUT digital sound than Tinseltown does WITH. I'm constantly getting replies like, "Really?! Wow!". It's as if people think that everything has to be digital to be good. If I know the person has the potential to donate some money to the college I do two things: 1) Invite them up to the booth to see the equipment. 2) Casually inform them that, for just a few thousand dollars, we can have digital sound too! When people judge how good your theater is, I think most people walk in the door with a preconceived notion of what they are going to see. I think they only believe what they hear and they only hear what they believe.  |  IP: Logged Michael Wilkinson The Entertainment King of Colusa and Beyond Posts: 89 From: Colusa, CA USA Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-31-2004 04:38 AM                        To answer Thomas's question: Yes they did. I'm not sure how many ES units were made with effects generating capability. Mine does (#1012); the wierd thing was that DTS never really seemed interested to explain how to work it. From what I do know is that I can program my unit to synchronize up to eight separate effects units such as strobes, snow blowers, flame thowers, etc. to operate in any combination during any points in the film that I so choose. I decided not to pursue the effects since my theatre has lots of steps. Can you say lawsuit? For effects, the ES unit must be linked in parallel with the DTS6 or 6D to the timecode reader. The ES unit displays the reel, and frame numbers to which you could set your effects. The DTS timecode also does provide the logic to the ES unit for automatically switching in and out of ES depending on the intended format. I will also say that I am dissappointed that the unit usually sits idle and when the green led lights up indicating that the film is in ES, it is almost always a suprise. As far as sound quality... the good thing for me was that I upgraded all of my speakers for the "Phantom Menace". In so doing and advertising that I was the only theatre for 60 miles with ES (or whatever), rear surround or not, it put my place on the map. Do they know what ES,EX,CS,DD,DTS,SDDS,THX are? Most probably don't or can't tell whether it is or isn't, however I believe that people can at least tell the difference between good and mediocre even if they can't put their finger on it. I have the Incredibles starting Friday...I think it is in ES since the preview is...But that hasn't always been the case. Does anyone know for sure?  |  IP: Logged Michael Wilkinson The Entertainment King of Colusa and Beyond Posts: 89 From: Colusa, CA USA Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-31-2004 04:38 AM                        Slow internet led to a repeat  |  IP: Logged

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