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Author Topic: Is EX dead?
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-31-2004 11:38 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy, I know what you mean about Tinseltown theaters in general. I have often been very disappointed about the audio quality in their theaters, even brand new ones.

In Colorado Springs, when the newest Cinemark theater opened, my brother and I watched an IMAX 3D movie there and "Rush Hour 2". The IMAX 3D show was pretty cool. But the presentation of "Rush Hour 2" sucked. The sound was awful. I went up to the back row and looked through the port glass. The film was threaded through the DTS reader, the rack equipment was playing digital. Still, the sound quality was so poor that it sounded like bad analog. Little to no bass response. Occaisional discrete activity in the surrounds was the only clue the show had a digital soundtrack. I don't know if it is Cinemark's choice in amplifiers and speakers or that their techs just don't know how to EQ a room. At any rate it is just awful. I saw "Seabiscuit" at the same theater a couple years later and the sound quality was still bad.

[ 11-01-2004, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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David Favel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 764
From: Ashburton, New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-31-2004 06:10 PM      Profile for David Favel   Email David Favel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Beware of EX trailers when the movie is not EX. The last example was Shark Tale.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-31-2004 11:09 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby,

I used to WORK for Cinemark! I know how things can be sometimes.
As hard as I used to work getting theaters looking and sounding as good as I knew how, I never felt like there were more than a handful of theaters that were any good!

I tried like hell and worked my ass off some days only to have some snot-nosed kid come around behind me and screw it all up again. Sometimes only HOURS after leaving the theater!

The truth of the matter is that most commercial theaters, be they Cinemark or not, don't have enough qualified people to keep 10 to 20 projectors running their best. They're lucky to get one or two good technicians to go around, from theater to theater, fixing things that break and barely keeping shows on the screen!

Dolby EX?! Fog Machines with special effects?! Are you kidding?! Most places can barely keep the equipment they already have running in half-decent condition!

No theater company executive in his right mind would pay for equipment like that under these conditions!

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 11-11-2004 03:04 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jack Ondracek
OK... playing devil's advocate for the moment:

Do any of you really believe that, in a town full of theatres playing "movie X", more customers will seek out the theatre that is playing the show in

EX?
Digital?
DLP?

... enough so that the investment would clearly be to the benefit of the exhibitor?

I know you are playing devil's advocate, but your point is well worth expanding upon.

In a competitive market, differentiation is the key marketing approach to take. If someone looks at a movie schedule, the one that stands out will get noticed. Marketing is all about getting noticed.

Newspaper ads usually aren't laid out to show a single movie, and then all the theaters playing it, but that's just one of the reasons newspapers are fast becoming irrelevant in so many ways.

However, in my "Nearby Theater" listings for a particular movie, all theaters within x miles are shown one after another. The first column has the theater's name and location, the middle column has sound and stadium seating info, and the right column has showtimes info.

Example:
http://www.bigscreen.com/NowShowing.php?movie=42160&zip=53151

Some theaters don't supply any digital sound information, either because of an error of omission or apathy (most theaters around here are digitally equipped), and most just specify a generic "digital sound" designation. Some, however, do specify the actual format, and since we can display the ES and EX format logos, any theater making that designation would stand out in that listing.

A position could be taken that the audience can't tell the difference and/or doesn't care, so then why should a theater invest in it? My response would be that anything that contributes to the movie-going experience should be invested in, because that's what showing movies is all about.

Sure, digital sound is a guarantee of good sound (some theaters find a way to screw anything up), but the potential is there. If properly installed and equipped, a movie shown in digital sound should sound better than if shown in analog. I've been in theaters when the sound drops back to analog, and the comparison is very noticeable.

Apathy is a dangerous thing in the showmanship business, because if one takes the position that an investment in good sound doesn't matter because the audience doesn't know the difference, then the slippery slope takes that line of thinking into cutting back on the lamp to sacrifice brightness but extend the life of the bulb, popping popcorn days ahead of time and warming it up later, and cleaning the bathrooms less often, etc.

I would probably make a very (financially) unsuccessful theater owner. I would do things that maybe the audience wouldn't notice, but I know make the experience better. I would put the sound trailers at the beginning of each film, post the plaques at the door, and make sure that my ads always showed which sound format was playing.

But then, maybe doing those things on a regular basis would make me a financially successful theater owner... because in a competitive market full of theaters that didn't do those things, my theater would stand out and attract the crowds. Maybe.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-18-2004 11:59 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Happened Again

Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow.
No EX label on cans
No EX label on leaders
No Auto EX
No DTS (so I can not check the serial number)
Very Sad.

Bye
A

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-21-2004 10:57 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, I agree 100% with your philosophy -- the success or failure (or at the very least, lack-lustre performance) of any business hinges on the attention to details. Everything that the patrons come in contact with impacts their perception of that business (by the way, a friend once told me, you want to know how well a business runs? just look at the condition of the rest rooms). Sometimes even minutia that if you asked a patron about, they might not even consciously recall noticing, but believe me, even those seemingly insignificant things make up the total impact of their experience and cutting corners WILL impact negatively on the bottom line.

Just an observation, but your experience "I've been in theaters when the sound drops back to analog, and the comparison is very noticeable" isn't the fault of the analog system. If an analog system is correctly aligned and attention has been paid to it (rather than thinking of it as a throw-away "backup" for the digital tracks), dropping out of digital should be nearly imperceptible. If it isn't, then something is wrong. The biggest difference between analog and digital is discrete channel separation and left right surrounds and wider dynamic range (which some people feel is a detriment rather than a plus -- all those way too loud passages that drives patrons out of the theatre). Nice as those elements of digital sound are, in the midst of real-time soundtrack playback, they are not so omni-present that loosing them would be immediately noticeable most of the time.

The most significent element of all audio performance is undistorted frequency response and sufficient sound pressure, parameters that a fine-tuned analog sound system can deliver so well as being be beyond the hearing response of most patrons so switching to analog should not be detrimental. If it is, I would fault the local theatre and not the analog system itself.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-21-2004 11:38 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even in the best, most properly set up movie theaters digital system drop outs to analog are going to be perceptable. The collapse of dynamics by more than +/-10 db of headroom are difficult to hide. The only way around this is to have the digital system turned down and the analog system turned up.

Unfortunately, I've been seeing this kind of phenomenon occuring more and more often. In most movie theaters I've visited in recent years, the analog movie trailers and analog TV commercials playing before the film are often as loud or even louder than the actual feature. This doesn't make any sense since many (especially the TV commercials) sound totally horrible. But those clips are mixed that way. Customers come out complaining about how irritatingly loud those trailers are and the master fader gets turned down to 5 or 4 as a result. You get loud commercials and then a feature with quiet, clean, yet wimpy sound.

IMHO, if digital surround sound is not going to get played at the proper levels and have the appropriate amount of oomph to it, then there's little point of advertising it or even going to the trouble of installing it.

Somebody needs to crack down on these arrogant movie studio marketing departments and other sources for overly loud trailers. It is absolutely bullcrap that this keeps persisting. There's been numerous overtures made about addressing the problem from various organizations yet the damned trailers keep getting louder and louder, in spite of most sounding horrible. It's like turning up a ham radio to 10. That's not going to make me want to see the movie at all. It'll do more to keep me at home where I have the control of the home theater system volume knob.

Anyway, there's a lot of fundamentals being ignored in quality of theater presentation these days. Having a EX or ES logo on the marquee is not going to mean squat to anyone if the basics cannot be managed correctly.

[ 11-21-2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-21-2004 12:03 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
National Treasure was EX.

=TMP=

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Hannes Helfenstein
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Hergiswil, Switzerland
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted 11-21-2004 02:07 PM      Profile for Hannes Helfenstein   Author's Homepage   Email Hannes Helfenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Auto-EX or any other information that it is really EX?

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Hannes Helfenstein
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Hergiswil, Switzerland
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted 11-23-2004 08:51 AM      Profile for Hannes Helfenstein   Author's Homepage   Email Hannes Helfenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, definitely no EX. I asked Dolby's Christy Ventura and she answered me that Disney had made an error on the end credits. They used the wrong Dolby logo! This would have been the first mix of Greg P. Russell and Kevin O'Connell in SRD-EX and since they prefer the SDDS-8 format, they won't mix in 6.1.

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