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Author Topic: WHICH CYAN READER IS BEST Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-04-2004 02:51 PM                     "To dismiss Jaxlights off the cuff because you don't like it may make owners who are looking for conversions, decide that they will look at more expensive systems which will delay there decision to upgrade." _________________________________________________________________ What will ultimately hurry the owners along is when a cyan print arrives that they can't play back!! Personally, I can't think of a single reason that one should install a jAX Light.... we have stopped selling them and still have two sitting in the stock room. One may actually diminish the quality of the A chain by doing so. When the inexpensive C.E. pickup is so close to the price of a JaX Light why one would want to go the jAx Light route is simply beyond any normal logic. The pricing you get may also be directly related to how many your dealer purchases..... so check around at least with several dealers for the "best Price ". Another dealer thats no longer operating in the Mountain States area had fast talked so many owners into installing jax lights... but I'm now slowly in the process of getting rid of those a few at a time for those that are willing and want to have better analog reproduction. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-04-2004 06:02 PM                     Mark, I don't have problems with my basement readers (Kelmar or CE) and don't see any need of adding a penthouse to do what the soundhead can do just fine. A Kinoton basement reader can give a penthouse a run for its money too. As to penthouses...I'll take a Cat. 699 or Cat. 700 over any of the LED based ones. BACP does win on the ease of installation and the user changable LED is a big plus for them. The tally lights and the other "value adds" make them an excellent value. The wall-wort belongs in the trash...no real professional equipment uses them and even in-line worts suck. While they make UL/ETL easier they are still just stupid. A CE ASR-40 system is quite cost effective and wins high marks for the power supply...note, you can order it with either logic to suit you automation or installation needs). This little guy can be installed (if ordered with logic off until closed) using your existing exciter lamp wiring (just remove the exciter supply) so that that LED ramps on and off as the tungsten lamp did before...without WOMPs or even exciter lamp changeover (did a set in a drive-in). Kelmar is the only one to properly support the Century JJ with an R50 soundhead to allow the 70mm film to slip through. What I also like about doing basement readers on Centurys is that the soundhead gets an overall improvement in stability so even analog benefits. For a fun experiment, if you have a felt G-1985 for your Simplex, try that with a basement reader...your eyes will bug out when you see the error readings (presuming all else is in order)...typically 1-point LESS than with any penthouse reader. I made a Dolby-guy wig out on that one...they ran their print in NYC on a penthouse and when they saw the basement reader he shuddered...I said don't worry...what did it run on the penthouse (something like a 3 on average)...I said then this will run a 2 or "2." ...and it did. This was on a Simplex SH-10XX (gearbox) soundhead with a felt G-1985 roller (that was still soft felt and not petrified but kept clean). All fo the sprockets were CS not VKF since they run some slightly shrunk 4-track films from their collection. While I can appreciate the speed and ease of installation of the penthouse, I don't buy that they are necessary for a good reliable Dolby Digital installation...at least not on the projector/soundheads we typically work with (Simplex, Century, Kinoton). Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-04-2004 06:41 PM                     "I don't have problems with my basement readers (Kelmar or CE) and don't see any need of adding a penthouse to do what the soundhead can do just fine. A Kinoton basement reader can give a penthouse a run for its money too. As to penthouses...I'll take a Cat. 699 or Cat. 700 over any of the LED based ones" I don't remember saying that I had any problems either. I just happen to prefer to use the one with the best available technology. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-04-2004 09:58 PM                       Reply to my friend Steve Guttag. Regarding wall warts, even spelled correctly, they are somewhat inelegant, but a tradeoff. We spent our money on features and lenses that are better than those used by other vendors. We were the first to use high quality custom designed lenses for this purpose which allowed us to run relatively low LED current with good signal to noise ratio. Background noise from dirt and scratches is a good bit lower that other US vendors. I can't speak to Kinoton spec's. We also set our magnification very carefully to get all the analog soundtrack read. FYI, I use the CE external power supply with the DP75 reader where my internal supply simply won't fit. CE and Kelmar are my competitors for readers but also my friends and vendors for specific merchandise. Isn't this business great?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-04-2004 10:23 PM                     Steveo, quote: Brad Miller I'm not a fan of the CE readers, due to their unnecessarily complex design. That's a complaint from projectionists. CE systems tend to take up lots of space in the soundhead and it makes threading more difficult. Not that the projectionists can't learn to thread it, or that the CE doesn't perform anywhere near the Kelmar (it does). I'm still 100% sold on the BACP over the Kelmar and CE due to installation ease and performance. Whenever Adam finishes some coding for the site, a review will appear as will other daily updates.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 06-05-2004 03:03 AM                        I have looked at, and used many Frank, I have found the Component Engineering solution a good one on our Century here at the Lunar Drive-in Theatre. What have users of Red Led converted Norelco AA2's (DP70's) found? We have two to convert and would love some feedback from the field on the various options? What do they use at Village Westwood and the Chinese in LA? David  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 06-05-2004 05:58 AM                     "The prices of updating to cyan stops a lot of owners upgrading now" I can honestly say that all of my customers have updated to either ACL laser or reverse scan, and they're all tight arsed Scotsmen! "In my experience I have not had a bad result from Jaxlight" I'd wager you've never REALLY listened to them then, try sitting in the theatre with the fader on 7, in SR with the projector running and the booth lights on.... HUMMMMMMMM! I've lost count of the number of these things I've binned and replaced with Walter Voight laser or reverse scan units, due to the customer complaining about hum, changeover thump or other extraneous audible noises. I hasten to add that I've never been involved with the supply or installation of the Jaxlight, we looked at them initially, but due to the problems we found with noise we decided against them. The idea behind the Jaxlight is sound, as it's design and construction, it's simply that with the pre-amp you are trying to achieve the impossible, amplify an already tiny signal wthout amplifying noise. Of the reverse scanners I like the CE best, due to the amount of adjustment one has on the LED it's possible to achieve perfect slit illumination. I've not seen BACP kit so I can't comment.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-05-2004 06:42 AM                        Another advantage of the wart solution is that it is easy to troubleshoot over the phone and all that is needed on the other side of the phone line is an extension chord. Although we never had any problems with them so far except for once when the projectionist unplugged one from the convenience outlet to power his radio. He probably thought the outlet was provided for his convenience.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-05-2004 08:21 AM                     Davod, BACP makes two conversions for the DP-70, FP4,5,6,7 sound reproducers. One that is field installable but very difficult to do, and another that uses a standard BACP pickup and new design LED mount. The following photos give you some idea of whast involved to install one. Yesterday morning I machined 13 of the sound head castings for the conversion. I have come up with a VERY easy way to do this and maintain accuracy so if you do any of them down under contact me in regards how to do it. We always have at least one of these as a totally rebuilt soundhead in stock ready to ship. The BACP alignment jig used during machining to check the machined deck height. The first batch of machined castings I did last year. The finished product installed in the DP-70. We also split the lateral guide roller and spring load it to eliminate any side weave. The sound drum film contact rings also get a cleanup grind at a local grinding shop, the slot in the drum gets a plunge grind at the same time to widen it a wee bit for the LED mount. This assures perfect focus of the track as the drum rotates. Whle you're at it a Simplex VKF sprocket is easy to bore out and install on the DP-70. You will get much lower flutter using these over the older Phillips CS type tooth. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 06-05-2004 10:06 AM                        I use BACP readers in Simplex 5-star heads. They don't take up much room, the LEDs let me know if a signal is being received, and even if the print is stereo or mono (this is not always marked on the leaders). I doubled my analog frequency response to 16 Khz (from 8). I'm not getting sibilant problems as noted in other threads. Sam was very supportive in converting from RCA 1030 sound heads. I use a CAT-700 penthouse for SRD.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 06-05-2004 10:58 AM                     The wall wort is an easy way to meet UL/CE/CEE specs and my experience in instances with BACP and Walter Voight ACL units on Cinemeccanica and Ernemann machines have been problem free. I factored that the "convenience outlet" would be an issue so I would mount a single dedicated outlet out of the operator's tinkering reach......front mounted console outlets with a downward tilt can be a problem with the weight mass of the wort. ACL wall wort has enough reserve to operate two lasers which is nice when upgrading older 16/35 Ernemann units.The soft start on the CE ASR power supply I also like very much.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-05-2004 11:51 AM                     quote: ...try sitting in the theatre with the fader on 7, in SR with the projector running and the booth lights on.... HUMMMMMMMM! How about standing about 3 feet away from the projector while it's running with the sound head door open then hold a cigarette lighter about waist high and flick it a couple of times. You hear a loud "POP!!" coming through the system!! The JaxLite amplifies the signal so much that ANY stray light hitting the cell is heard in the theater. In fact, in one theater, the simple act of turning on the framing lamp causes a pop.  |  IP: Logged Mike Perju Film Handler Posts: 90 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Nov 2002 posted 06-05-2004 03:59 PM                     The BACP readers actually have an internal lateral adjustment for Century projectors, but the LED bracket does not. The lateral adjustment is made through a little hole on the front of the reader, to the right of the signal & power present LEDs. I can't rememeber what size Allen key you need to do the adjustment...  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-06-2004 12:04 PM                       The solar cell can be moved laterally but it is primarily intended to be used for projectors with a non-adjustable film position as in Cinemeccanica, Christie, etc. This adjustment can be used on any projector, but you can get yourself out of range if you are not careful.  |  IP: Logged Peter Hall Master Film Handler Posts: 314 From: London, UK Registered: Dec 2000 posted 06-07-2004 09:42 AM                        I agree that a full conversion kit is ideal, but if you are looking for a low cost long term solution I'd stick with one of our (or indeed the ASL if cost is not an issue) lasers are a better fix than a Jaxlite.  |  IP: Logged

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