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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: DTS-XD10P!
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-03-2004 05:57 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
Manny, do you think 70mm Dolby mag would have caught on without the release of "Star Wars" or other films that movie's lead in 1977 (such as the holiday '77 release of "Close Encounters")? I argue presentation formats are very title-driven. 70mm Dolby would have had a much harder time gaining acceptance if the only titles to show it off were films like the late 1976 remake of "A Star Is Born".
I agree with you, Bobby. But I think those days are gone. The business model has changed.
And your example is not given within the proper context. For instance, you neglect to even mention that the 70mm mag format represented a SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT over 35mm optical. You also fail to acknowledge that there are factors other than sound reproduction which contributed to the success of STAR WARS and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS. Even on a 35mm optical system, these films would have looked and sounded different from any other films of the day and THAT is a major factor in their success. Compared to other films, these films were doing INSANELY HUGE business -- unheard-of grosses up to that time -- and even the mono houses were enjoying great success with these titles.
quote: Bobby Henderson
"This is Cinerama" was the top money making movie of 1952. Without its success we would not have seen quite so much rush to develop so many widescreen formats.
No. Two reasons for widescreen innovations were (1) the perceived threat posed by television and (2) each studio applying for patents for their competing widescreen and 3-D formats.
quote: Bobby Henderson
In the early 1990's the biggest installation orders for digital sound systems were made to play back the really big movies supporting it. The bulk of Cinema Digital Sound processors were sold in support of "Terminator 2."
I'm glad you brought this up. CDS was the first of the digital audio formats to come and go, followed by SDDS. One begins to understand why exhibitors are reluctant to embrace new formats. I'm predicting a backlash.
quote: Bobby Henderson
"The Lion King" helped sell a lot of Dolby Digital players. Of course, we know DTS got off to a very good start riding the coat tails of Spielberg for the release of "Jurassic Park."
Just like 70mm mag did in it's time, these formats represented a HUGE IMPROVEMENT over 4.1 optical in many ways. Remember my test:
quote: Manny Knowles
My theory is that any new format is bound to be a hard-sell unless there is (a) self-evident improvement in the experiential quality versus that of the current standard; (b) a commitment on the part of studios to consistently release product in the new format and (c) competitive forces (i.e., "everybody else is upgrading"). And then there are also issues pertaining to cost, reliability and ease-of-use.
My experience tells me that people can appreciate the difference between 4.1 Analog Matrix and 5.1 Discrete Digital audio. I don't think we tend to notice or "miss" a 6th, 7th or 8th channel. One wonders whether theatres are being bombarded with phone calls requesting EX/ES info on EX/ES releases. That is unheard-of in my experience, and nobody ever inquired if a film was being played in SDDS-8. All they want to know is whether we're playing it "in digital" or maybe "in THX" (even though most people don't seem to understand what this means).
We have had situations where an entire screen channel went dead and nobody in the theatre noticed. But even when surround channels are functioning normally, there's always that one guy in the audience who comes out to complain about how the surrounds aren't working. Nowadays, customers only seem to care about overall volume and the presence of surrounds...and "kick-ass" bass response.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Nothing is going to sell movie theater hardware more than a breakthrough film making good use of the new format. Even questionable formats (like low rez DLP) get a huge bit of help when they are hyped in conjunction with a "Star Wars" prequel.
There's that old adage:
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
I really don't think too many exhibitors are going to rush out and buy more audio (or video) components simply because "George says so."
[ 08-03-2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]
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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-03-2004 10:39 PM
IMHO, there is no chance for 10 channel systems in regular commercial venues. The finances of most of the chains are disasters and perhaps more importantly, the studios won't spend the money for 10-channel mixes.
Don't forget what the studios did in the late 60s and 70s before the Dolby baby-boom format. They released 70mm 6-track releases where the center left was nothing more than a mix of the left and center and center right was nothing more than a mix of center and right. In other words, they mixed for 4-track and spread that to six channels. IMO, even if 10 channel systems became popular, they'd probably mix the same way.
Like it or not, theatrical releases have become not much more than marketing for the DVD releases.
Has any customer ever perceived the difference between a 6 channel and 8 channel SDDS mix? I've listened for it and I'm not even sure I perceived any difference.
In the 1960s, the Russians did a lot of research into multichannel sound in theaters. There's a classic work that's been translated into English. If memory serves, once you got above 6 channels, perception fell way off.
I've always liked Tom Holman's work (and I still own one of his Apt-Holman preamps), but I've never understood why the same guy who thought that the multichannel sound field in theaters should be diffuse would also want to increase the number of channels. I fail to see how it could be perceptible in a diffuse sound field and even if it was, would it be used for anything beyond ambiance, bird sounds, munitions sounds and flyovers?
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