Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Lamphouse Spot-the-Difference game! (With pics!)

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Topic: Lamphouse Spot-the-Difference game! (With pics!)

Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 10-07-2004 01:06 AM

For the record, I have never handled or changed out a Xenon lamp without at least a facemask and gloves. Took a lot of shit for it too, from many of my former brother stagehand colleagues. Yeah, I'm a milquetoast with no balls. [Wink]

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-07-2004 01:42 AM

neither have i. well actually, i'm not trained to change bulbs as that's our union guy's province. but i'm resolved never to do so in the future without the proper protective gear (which we don't have).

it's easy to be blase about safety issues like this. sometimes it takes a near miss to drive home the point. i nearly put an eye out using a table saw once. now i always use goggles. and i have probably been spared serious injury by using a bike helmet.

carl

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-07-2004 03:15 AM

I've seen worse by people who should have known much better. And like those cases, if it burned up it would be the best thing that happened to it.

I'll go with a grudging admiration that you got the problem of running a movie solved while not being educated as a tech, a disgusted understanding of the position you were in, a wish that it had nver been done, & a loathing of an employment situation that would have brought it about.

I'm in the camp of thinking the worst here after the deadly aspect it is an employer who would 1) suggest it, 2) allow it, 3) not provide essential safety gear, 4) not have a spare bulb, 5) not have educated employees about these type of technical issues, 6) would not have had their tech take care of the problem, 7) would put employees in a position of feeling compelled to do something like that, 8) expose employees to such incredible danger.

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Dan Bouvier
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Sylvan Lake, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 10-07-2004 04:19 AM

quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Now, for what it's worth, no one here is attempting to be hard on you, instead just educating you without sugar coating it. I assume that's what you came here for and what you started this thread for. Any really negative comments are directed at your employer, not you -- at least mine anyway.

It's all good. I must really be underestimating the safety issue, however - I figured my lamphouse setup would be critiqued based on it's technical merits (and lack thereof).

But I must aver, our website's DNS setup has little or nothing to do with me. That's just nitpicking.

quote: William Hooper
I'm in the camp of thinking the worst here after the deadly aspect it is an employer who would 1) suggest it, 2) allow it, 3) not provide essential safety gear, 4) not have a spare bulb, 5) not have educated employees about these type of technical issues, 6) would not have had their tech take care of the problem, 7) would put employees in a position of feeling compelled to do something like that, 8) expose employees to such incredible danger.

My boss didn't suggest it - I did. He didn't really know about it either. And we don't have a tech, per se. He works for a Canada-wide projection company. I just called him because I wasn't sure who else to talk to.

If we can lay to rest the safety issue, or just let it take a nap for this thread's sake, I'd like to ask again:
What can I do for improvised safety gear? Would work gloves, a CSA-approved face shield, and a big heavy jacket from the Sally Ann do the job? Yes, I could get in my boss's face and demand that he buys new gear, or I could scrounge whatever I could behind his back, which IMO would be easier.
What are the technical issues with running the lamphouse setup in the picture? Assuming the rectifier is putting out the correct amperage, will a "stock" Super Lume-X run an LTI 2500W lamp with no problems? Is the metal in a coat hanger really strong enough to be in a lamphouse? What about cooling, as I asked before? And what about the lack of douser? In an emergency, is it not enough to close the changeover or power down the lamp?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-07-2004 07:46 AM

For the record, the Super-Trooper spotlight uses the LUME-X lamphouse, not the Super Lume-X...there is a significant size difference there. The Lume-X optimally runs on 1.6K or less but is indeed rated to 2K. Remember too that on a spot light...little to no cooling is offered...just the intake blower....most just use the dome over the exhaust stack. Also remember that the lamp is mounted in reverse (anode to the rear) which often places the envelope very nearly plugging the reflector's center hole.

In short, you can compare apples to oranges even if they are made by the same company.

As to this modification...the theatre should not have run...the mods were extremely dangerous to the equipment, and the "tech." The fault was with management and it should ahve stayed there. If they choose to not have spare lamps (and apparantly there are several screens in this location with the same lamp size) that is their business choice. Placing yourself in harm's way to overcome incompetence is foolhardy. In fact, you even mention that you didn't know what you were doing...yet another strike.

Remember, this is just a discount movie theatre, not some sort of life-support system that is essential. Perhaps if the owner losst business as a result of the lost shows (even long-term) then he would learn to properly stock the theatre...or smarter businesses would gain patronage for properly running their theatres. All you did was to facilitate and idiot in their ways and placed yourself in harms way doing it. As to running a platter by hand...how does that place yourself in harm's way? At most you would need to do it for one show since even if a motor burned out...you probably have a spare deck to use on the next show...even if you have to move a print to get to it.

Steve

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-07-2004 10:18 AM

We all agree that the bulb handling without suitable protection was dangerous, particularly as this wasn't a simple change-out but probably required lots of trial and error fitting. And extremely dangerous if there was any open-door running to get it aligned. Beyond that it seems like it would be just an equipment risk or am I missing something? How often are bulb explosions uncontained?

I also don't think the implied threat, which hopefully was unintentional, to sic the authorities on him or his employer is particularly conducive to the free exchange of information here. If we make people regret fessing up to what they did a lot less learning is going to take place and that won't help safety; it will hurt it.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 10-07-2004 11:31 AM

Dan, I am very concerned about your lack of safety equipment. Is changing, or otherwise handling, xenon lamps, with the lamphouse open part of your job? If it is not; if you have been told that you should not do this, and that some other person will do it, then that would explain the lack of equipment. If this is not the case, and you are expected to handle lamps, then the appropriate safety equipment should be provided for your use.

If the equipment has not been provided due to cost, then that is ridiculous, it would be far cheaper than the fine for having an employee seriously injured in an industrial accident. If your employer has such low regard for your wellbeing, then maybe it is time to look for a new job.

Does your employer have any technical knowledge? Is he aware that the are hazards associated with xenon lamps, or does he just think that they're like domestic light bulbs, but brighter? If this is the case, then you need to speak to him, urgently. If he were to order the stuff today you could have it by the weekend.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 10-07-2004 01:51 PM

I stand corrected. Thanks Steve.

I see that the Super Lume-X is rated to 2.5K, so the heat load of Dan's temporary fix may not be a factor assuming good lamp focus. As to Dan's question about cooling, I've seen people mount squirrel cage blowers on the exhaust to draw more air through the lamphouse. There's been quite a few posts on this forum over the years about lamp cooling and minimum required air flows (a search is suggested).

As to safety gear, there are minimum specs published on-line for it (again, a search is suggested). I've always worn a full face shield (looks like a flip-up welder's mask but it's made of clear plastic), clean leather gloves, and an old jacket (something I wouldn't mind getting peppered with quartz shards). I've been lucky in that I've never had a bulb go off while I was exposed to it. But I have had three go off on me while they were burning: a 2K inside a Super Trouper, a 7K inside an Ultra 80, and a 15K inside an Omnimax lamphouse. And I was standing right next to my buddy Dave when he had a 5K go off inside its box just as he was opening it for an install. The shards were contained each time, but I'd hate to see what someone's unprotected face would look like after an uncontained kaboom.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-07-2004 02:54 PM

I'm certainly not an expert on the safety equipment, but if you're going to do it anyway, improvised safety gear is far better than nothing.

With respect to full-face-shields, please remember that many of them (most?) require you to wear primary eye protection underneath them, i.e. safety glasses. This sort of stuff should be available at your local hardware store.

I don't know what you'd do to improvise gloves.

--jhawk

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Cam Jones
Film Handler

Posts: 35
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 10-07-2004 03:33 PM

Duct tape gloves, now theres an idea! [Big Grin]

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 10-07-2004 03:51 PM

Screw that "the show must go on" mentality! I once refused to run a show because the lamphouse exhaust motor had burned out.

My former employer has the creed:

"No job is so urgent, or service so essential, that we can't take the time to do our jobs safely."

...Never failed me...

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-07-2004 03:52 PM

Actually I think HM the Queen exempted all repairs involving coat hanger wire and/or duct tape from safety regulations throughout the Commonwealth several years ago. [Razz]

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 10-07-2004 07:18 PM

Too bad Canada isn't part of the commonwealth!

Dan, the proper safety gear is actually pretty cheap. You're (well your employer) isn't going to save much by buying 'substitutes'.

A face sheild and leather gloves are a minimum. A leather smock would be good to. You can find the leather stuff at any welding supply house, the face sheild you can probably get at Crappy Tire. You can probably get the leather gloves there too.

quote: Dan Bouvier
But I must aver, our website's DNS setup has little or nothing to do with me. That's just nitpicking.

Any website that gets mentioned has always been fair game for me or Scott to pick on network issues. I wasn't blaming you for it, just pointing out that your employer is likely using a discount hosting service in addition to their other cost cutting measures.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-07-2004 07:55 PM

quote: Paul Mayer
A stock Super Lume-X runs too hot as it is with a 2k in it IMHO, even though the lamphouse is rated for it (I say this based on my experience with them on the back of Super Trouper spotlights).

In fact if a Super Lum-Ex does run very hot there is simply not enough air volume being pumped through the lamphouse. A properly spec'd blower will take care of that and allow the lamphouse to run relatively cool and you'll get great lamp life... but its not a Christie SLC or even a Big Sky for that matter.

As for the Super Trooper... its definately not what its name implies thats for sure! Its really a genuine piece of American made crap. Super it is not... unreliable it is and its more like a sitting time bomb when it is equipped with a 2kw lamp. Even the 1.6 kw lamp runs way too hot and any lamp you use in it will normally have a very short life span. The Lum-EX has very little air flow through put capability because of its small internal volume. Its tiny little internal seal blower... which can barely be regarded as a blower for that purpose at all is expected to cool in most situations the heat generated by a 2KW lamp. Yea right! All in all with the extensive expereince I've had with them they are in reality a dangerous piece of equipment that I refuse to ever operate or be associated with again!

The older arc Super Troopers were wonderful follow spots that had balance so well done that you could move the entire lamp around with just your finger tips. They also had very easy to operate controls and positive locking mechanisms and a very well designed and built stand. Strong has loused all that up in the VERY cheapened version of what they call a Super Trooper. I think Stupid Trooper would be a better name.

Mark

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Marc Hansen
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 10-07-2004 08:27 PM

NO excuse for lack of safety gear!! Full face shield, safety glasses, leather welding jacket, Kevlar cut proof gloves, less than $75!! In my other life I own a machine shop where refusal to use safety gear is cause for dismissal. It costs WAY less than the deductable for 1 ER trip.

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