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Author Topic: Bad Judgement = Damaged Equipment = Destroyed Print = Cancelled Show Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-19-2004 02:19 AM                     I can see the scratches coming from the "squirm" and "squeeze" from when prints are moved using the clamps on new builds-nothing to keep the print flat as if it was on the platter. Most of the theatres that I worked at had platter "pancake" scoopers-homemade boards of 1/4" plywood 4 ft square, with a 2x6 mounted on one end with a circular cutout in the middle the shape of the completed film wind, and a hole in the middle for a hand hold-to "cradle" the print during moving, eliminating the "squirm and "squeeze' of a clamped, unsupported print. Nothing more aggravating when moving a print and one of the clamps decides to be not too tight and slip down to the bottom, and hope that the ring doesn't pop out, or you're in deep doo-doo for the rest of the night. One of our guys did that-didn't tightened one of the clamps tight enough, ring popped out and he had an 7 reeler slop down like a wet rag on the floor. Luckilly, it wasn't too bad of a mess, so we scooped up that mess with our board mover, and plopped that print on the platter. Then, threaded that mess for a fast-forward wind through the platter only, grabbed the good ol' Kelmar cleaner, soaked up a full roll of media with "Mr. Miller's Fantastic, Amazing, Miraculous and All-around 'Film Guard'", mounted that cleaner on the platter tower(AW3R) and let 'er rip, and two hours later, we had all that film wound neatly back on the ring, the cleaner got most of the "dust-bunnies" that the film picked up from the booth carpet (actually, passed that print through about 3 more times to get rid all the "dust-bunnies"), and "we're back in business, boys, and girls.." Now, here's a good one: I'm getting to notice, with used prints, that the tail leader is cut off from even with the last reel-right after the rating tag. Is this something new, or are we seeing lazy operators/booth personnel who doesn't know where to place the shutdown cue tape so the dowser will drop before the tail runout through the machine-to eliminate the end run visual through the machine, including the sound? Quite annoying to have to re-connect this tail leader, since I have to have that leader on for proper shutdown sequence. Used to see this long ago when theatres would stack prints together as a dbl feature bill with a cue in the middle to send the unit into "intermission" mode. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-19-2004 02:57 AM                     Monte - We have those same type of print movers custom made for is. They work perfect and last a few years. They do not scratch the platters and are not that heavy. Gotta love them. We even have a big one for those 9 plus prints with little cut-outs that make a handle to hold onto. Randy - Nobody in that projection booth knows anything electrical. They are a bunch of kids and they are all almost new. The just know the basics, so I coudn't tell you why the platter system blew. I posted pics on my original post. Oh yeah, we also need a new platter. That platter was warped too!  |  IP: Logged Nate Lehrke Master Film Handler Posts: 396 From: Denver, CO Registered: Oct 2002 posted 12-19-2004 03:12 AM                     Could someone elaborate on "cinching" for me. What is actually occuring? Edit: Did a search on it & understand now.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-19-2004 03:22 AM                     That's a bit of a nasty one with that one pix with the film being slung on the floor like that. True, you do have it a bit cramped up there where this occured-not much room to breathe in certain areas. Makes you wonder if a voltage spike came down the pipe, or the transformer shorted across inside sending huge amounts of current in that controller area, shorting out diodes to let the AC through and taking everything in sight. Pretty sad when an AW3 platter can get warped. They're pretty sturdy units. But, never know... But, been there and done that as well-cut, flop,untangle, and wind as best as can to get it all back together, or back on the reels. I've helped other booth employees clean up messes like this when especially when they're breaking down and they don't notice the ring was missing in the first place-they can sling that film pretty far down the floor! Now.. I have to ask a question, and this might sound a bit strange: I've read in this thread of operators using the 6K reels to build from the MUT to the platter. Do most of the films come in tails out, or is a policy of sorts to build first to 6K reels, rewind that 6k reel, then to the platter? I've never done this. If a reel comes in tails out, I would simply rewind that reel to a 2k reel to make heads, then mount that reel to the platter. Seems like extra work to me...but I was just asking... -thx Monte thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-19-2004 08:40 AM                     Monte- In my experience building straight to the platter is faster, but there is limited space to work around. Also there is a higher chance of causing damage to a print. I would prefer the prints to come tails out so that I wouldn't have to rewind the 6000 reel. But yes, we build onto 6000's, rewind, and then onto the platters. This booth is actually pretty open and has a lot of light. My theatre is the one that is a maze and is crammed in many areas. Very dark too. If you see the booth for the AMC Grand 24 pics, its similar to that. Built around the same time.  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-19-2004 09:11 AM                     Monte, with about 97% of the prints I handle for film festivals coming on cores, building onto 6000-footers on a bench is IMHO the only logical way to "do film right." A Kelmar bench handles a split reel much easier than a Christie MUT, a 6000' reel has less inertia than a platter deck, and the ergonomics of a bench compared to a MUT makes it easier to catch and fix bad splices, not to mention check heads and tails, apply cue tape, etc. Yes, it does take considerably more time to build a print that way, but the ease and quality is worth it.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-19-2004 10:03 AM                        When first reading the tips section I came across this method of building onto 6k's first then onto the MUT. If I was still at my 20 screener I might try this and judge from there, but at the twin I work now my "workbench" is basically hand made by the previous owner and has a bit of nostalgia to it. The spindles are hand-cranked so reels are loaded OVER the bench, not hanging off the side. For some reason, despite the fact he owned (and we inherited) about fifteen 6k reels, the 6k's do not fit over the bench on the spindles. One of the spindles is motor driven but that is also mickey-moused in and not very strong (can't even build a trailer program using the motor because when the trailer gets close to the core it is too difficult for the motor to pull). My guess is I will have to re-make a workbench with our carpenter, but I look forward to that. Have everything the way I want it. So for the meantime I build straight to platter, have not had any ill-effects such as increased static or any scratching.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-19-2004 10:31 AM                        I prefer to do actual film inspection at a rewind bench, rather than at a platter MUT. It's just a personal preference and, yes, it does take longer than when making up directly to a platter (assuming that the print arrives heads out), but I feel that I can do a more effective job inspecting and repairing (if necessary) the print at the bench. As Jon mentioned, winding directly onto a platter isn't an option when prints arrive on cores, anyway. The only time I'd make up film directly onto a platter would be if I absolutely had to get the film on the screen in the least possible amount of time and if I were confident that the print wouldn't require extensive repairs. Or if the booth didn't have a usable rewind bench, which is an unfortunate situation that I have encountered twice. Edit: I should add that I always break down prints directly onto shipping reels at the MUT, unless the print came on cores, in which case I'd break it down onto 6000' reels and then finish the job at the bench. It's probably been six months or more since I've last done film work in a platter house, but I get to run some shows on an evil Super Platter this weekend. Wish me luck. [ 12-19-2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Scott Norwood ]  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 12-19-2004 10:33 AM                        This is what you get for not running two projector changeover systems.  |  IP: Logged Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 12-19-2004 10:52 AM                        Alas, those of us in c/o house can still find ourselves sorting out some lovely 'presents' left us by people that handled the prints before us. And something else that can really suck in a c/o booth - the rewind bench taking it upon itself to cease functioning properly during a second matinee show. Then to make things more entertaining, this happens while you're on break, and a far less seasoned operator is on duty, and she gives no thought to calling the manager (sure it was his day off, but a lot of the weenie mishaps with the equipment are well within his ability to fix, thus reducing our need to pester a tech). So I get back early from my break, and immediately jump on trying to assess the problem, and realize that I can't reassemble that which broke, and call the manager, to relay the pertinent info to his voice mail. Fortune granted us a little reprieve, this happened when we had two prints, alternating showtimes. So the un-rewound print didn't play until the second evening show, but since the rewinder was looking at not getting fixed until 30-45 minutes before that show, I ended up rewinding a trailer reel, and about 4.5 reels of a feature by hand. Quite sucky. Sure would have been nice had the other operator thought to do that to a couple of the reels while I was on break.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-19-2004 11:35 AM                        Booths with handcrank benches are fun! I've worked in two (Hanscom AFB and the Avon Cinema; there are pics of both in the galleries) where the motorized rewinders are only suitable for rewinding (no variable speed) and prints need to be inspected on the handcrank bench. I actually prefer the handcrank arrangement for trailer work, but I'll take a Kelmar bench any day for feature work. Wow, Gracia...projectionists get "breaks" at your theatre? I've never heard of that happening before!  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-19-2004 12:11 PM                     In the picture it looks like the ceramic resistor in the center is fried but the two on either side are mostly OK but for some smoke. Then the transformer looks totally beat. I can't tell from the picture but the power control board and the two platter control boards look mostly OK. It's hard to tell from a picture so I'm just guessing. I hope I'm proven wrong but, I'm sorry, I can't see how that could have happened unless something was out of whack.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-19-2004 12:38 PM                     Re: Leaving MUTs unattended. In some of the lesser operations I've worked for, it had to be done. Otherwise I would end up staying there so long that I might as well thread up the first set. The main problem was that they would only have ONE -- ME -- person building prints. With 5 to build and 2 technicolors to break, the hands have to be doing something other than leaning on a mut. I think that as long as you're within eye's and ear's distance (which means 4-6 BIG steps away max) everything should be fine. If your Mut's are so bad that you can't leave them for a second, then there's a serious problem with them. What could happen that would not be related to operator error in the middle of a build that would send film flying? There was even a theater I worked at where it was MANDATORY to set the film up on the mut, flip it on and GO DOWNSTAIRS to help them do inane tasks like change posters or marquee. Despite my protests and complaints, the policy stood until a print tailed out into the film that was being built and disaster struck. Then came a harsh, all-caps memo saying we are not to leave the booth unattended when building. Don't you love it when managers steal ideas they protested to in the past? Re: Moving Prints Sometimes there's no option. Sometimes you have to build onto whatever platter is empty and then -- yes -- move the print before it's played through. Especially when your theater LOVES to double-up almost every house. A platter reel wouldn't solve this since the print would have to sit on it for a good hour or two until the proper deck(s) open up. (Could be the end of the night when the show is done, even) I'm not saying any of this is right or proper, just that it's usually unavoidable. Minimum wage gives you little to no clout to demand proper equipment and supplies. On a side note, I've been reading of all the recent print/booth problems on here and was wondering... how many MF prints of Lemony Snicket got trashed to this weekend?!?!?! That could explain its meager $30m opening. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-19-2004 03:29 PM                        Geez, how is it that there are no more robust safety devices on this unit? -- switches, fuses, even mechanical fail-safe mechanisms that would stop such a massive damage somewhere earlier in the event? I mean, even if the film were caught under the platter motor and it overheated, wouldn't the extra aperage it would draw cause a fuse to blow before taking out EVERY card? And how could the entire control unit self-destruct for all the platters rather than just the one that was in trouble? I was always under the impression that platters were self-contained units with their own controllers, power supplies and safety switches/mechanisms. What's the advantage of a single controller that operates every platter? (obviously this is one major DISADVANTAGE, eh?). I bet if you really worked on it, you could probably salvage most of the reels of that print. Although it looks like an godawful mess, most of the damage will probably be in one area of the print. You might get away with having to replace only one or two reels, rather than the whole print -- a much less costly a proposition, the difference perhaps between having the boss look at the print replacement bill and either gasping and clutching his heart and then immediatley firing the guy, or if only a reel or two, perhaps just cursing and maybe even docking the cost from the guy's paycheck but keeping him on.  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-19-2004 04:30 PM                     Randy - I wish I took a picture of the other side. The back of the platter control cards show that they are blown too. Every single thing in that picture was blown. Frank - The trailer ring and half of the first reel was OK. Then there was a section that looked OK, but it was another half of two random reels still together. Other then that, there was damage to every reel. Like I mentioned, it wasn't worth saving.  |  IP: Logged

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