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Author Topic: Bad Judgement = Damaged Equipment = Destroyed Print = Cancelled Show Neil Robinson Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Coxhoe, Durham, UK Registered: May 2004 posted 12-22-2004 05:56 PM                     I worked in a cinema that had Christie auto wind 3 platters, we had nothing but problems with them from day one, very similar to pictures above like when prints where thrown during shows on several occasions, I know you guys in the US are fans of Christie but here in the UK, they not very popular with some projection staff, I know we damaged several prints on the Christie platter, these where replaced eventually with Strong which caused no problems what so ever.  |  IP: Logged Jason Gazaille Film Handler Posts: 46 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-22-2004 06:33 PM                     I've worked with Strong Simplex and Christie SL-20's during my short 3 years as a projectionist, and I don't like Christie projectors at all. We've had no problems with the Autowind 3's, though. All of our problems have been with the way the gates destroy the film, even after 2 visits from a Christie technician. From the people I know, most of us actually don't like Christie equipment. They are cheaper and that's why the corporate people like them, but they are a lot of trouble. At least ours are.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-22-2004 07:34 PM                     quote: I worked in a cinema that had Christie auto wind 3 platters, we had nothing but problems with them from day one, very similar to pictures above like when prints where thrown during shows on several occasions, Try timing the AW3's using the Film-Tech method , you will NEVER have another thrown print! -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Neil Robinson Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Coxhoe, Durham, UK Registered: May 2004 posted 12-22-2004 08:47 PM                     Aaron, one of the problems we also found on the auto wide 3 was when we ran a print direct from the m.u.t to the platter, when the centre ring was removed the film was very tight and would be miss shapen, which caused problems when the print was ran for the first time as the plate would slow down then speed up at high speed due to the fact the film was not feeding through the brain smoothly due the shape of the film, the only way around this was to place a suction cup onto the brain casting to provent the control arm been able to move far enough to speed the plate up to much, I totally agree with michael the kinoton platter is and its M.U.T are superb, for example a cinema near me has 3 original Philips kinoton platters that where instaled in the 70s still running problem free  |  IP: Logged David Yauch Expert Film Handler Posts: 206 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-22-2004 11:14 PM                     Neil it sounds like you had some royally screwed up MUTs. NO MUT should be winding a film so tight that it becomes misshapen when the center ring is removed. I haven't been in projection for long, but I've never seen a film wound tighter from a MUT than it will get from being ran through the projector.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-22-2004 11:32 PM                     ..on your CHR MUTs: If the print is being wound too tight to the platter, take the bottom cover plate off of the MUT, take the motor belt off and let the reel spindle spin freely. This will lessen the tension on builds. For it's not fun trying to pull that ring out with a print wind when wound so tight. And when the ring finally frees, the center portion of the film wind springs inward and has to be monitored on the first pass through the machine. Some of the newer CHR MUTS have the newer, smaller motor pulleys that raise havoc with tight winding on buildups. Either order the larger motor pulley for replacement, or just take off the belt on buildups and do as above. Just remember to replace the belt for breakdowns. quote: Try timing the AW3's using the Film-Tech method , you will NEVER have another thrown print! That's the "AMEN" truth! If one knows how to time CHR-AW3/R platters this and the correct way, AW3/R's can be your best friend in the world. Big thing is to order the CHR "Platter TACH" - best tool in timing platter RPM speed. Only thing is to watch out, with the AW3/R units, is for the LED sensors in the arm assembly, for they like to short out which causes the infamous "platter creep." If you have a platter that's creeping, even with the adustments in the correct place, the brain is closed, or removed, take the sensor out and take a look in the glass of the photosensor. If the white space between the lines in the photosensor has dark areas or spots, the photosensor is shorting out which causes this "creep." And, this is with both versions of the AW3. good luck- thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-23-2004 03:37 AM                     I've never seen a Christie MUT wind too tight on buildup. I know lots of operators are from the school of "keep your hand on the edge of the reel to provide backtension", and this is NOT something that should be done on a Christie. It was properly designed from the get-go, and doesn't need that extra "helping hand" nor does it need deck braking on breakdown like many other junk platters on the market do. If you aren't hand braking the reel during loading, I would replace the motor. Taking the belt off should be an emergency measure only, as every time you start and stop the platter during buildup in this manner, you are going to be cinching the film. Depending on the severity of it (and the amount of light you have on screen), it may show itself as scratching. Regardless of whether you are seeing it on YOUR screen or not, the odds are there is small damage being done to the print, so please do not do this. Order a replacement motor.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-23-2004 11:54 PM                     Regarding the damage to the control system on the AW3: When building up/tearing down, the cards and transformer in the platter HAVE NOTHING TO DO with driving the motor of the deck or table. That is done through the control card on the MUT, which has NO FUSES. The large resistors to the left of the transformer in the pic are used to limit the current to the motor when the MUT is connected. Look closely at the AW3 schematic. The reason the whole system burned out is because: The motor was stalled by the film jam, drawing too much current (which the MUT didn't cut off because it has no fuses), the resistor became red hot, overheating the transformer which joined the fun and shorted out, which in turn took out the cards. What is known as a "cascading failure." Bevan can give more insight to this...... Edit next line: Missed Aaron's note and link... Oh, BTW, the Christie platter film keepers are known as "Bevan-Poos"  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-24-2004 10:33 AM                        Cascading failure is a result of poor design. There is no reason why segments of a complex system can't be protected if they have the potential to distroy the whole system.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-24-2004 05:49 PM                     Absolutely, Frank. Poor design indeed. Remember the old AW2's? If the power cord or plug was replaced (or if the outlet was wired wrong) and the incoming AC had hot and neutral reversed it would instantly destroy all the control modules!! I still rebuild AW2 modules on occasion, but any burned out by that cause can't be repaired. The older MUTS using the single or dual control cards could be updated with the late model fused cards which might have prevented this meltdown. My old Miniwind's MUT had a fuse installed by the previous owner.  |  IP: Logged Frank Bruno Film Handler Posts: 50 From: houston, tx Registered: Aug 2003 posted 12-28-2004 02:01 AM                     Moving prints at the AMC Bridgewater Commons 7: The print is run onto the flat bottom side of ancient grey static boards (the side without the course material)during it's last pre-move run. This is then put onto a former icecream freezer-cart thingy & pushed to the house where it's headed. Our clamps are for too old & bent to be trusted. New prints that cannot be built up where they will first play are built up using 6000fters & our stately old Christie MUTs & platters onto upside down old static boards as well, then moved to their new home. This makes me a little nervous, as I worry that (rather ironically) a static board put to other uses could cause a static related tragedy. This has thankfully not happened yet. I don't tend to walk away from my MUTS while they are on, but if I must & I'm feeling safe will lower to speed to around 25-40%. Is there anything really disgusting about this process? It's the best we can do, although it is rather ghetto, like us.  |  IP: Logged

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