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Author Topic: Brain Wraps Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-10-2005 10:16 PM                     The Lord knows, I wouldn't want to outfit a 30-plex with all Potts platters but they just aren't THAT bad. If I got to pick which platters to outfit a booth with it'd be a Christie or a Speco hands down. But, for a small operation that doesn't have a lot of money to spend they are a viable choice. However, they should have sign on them: "When I grow up, I want to be a Christie."  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-11-2005 03:08 AM                     Sad thing is that Strong platters are so much cheaper than a Christie, why a lot of circuits buy them in droves. Plus, the Strong platters are so simple to use, easy to maintain, being that they have no electronics to worry about as does the Christie and the Speco units. Yet, granted, tried and true, Christies walks all over Strongs in the long run, but the Christies just have to be more taken care of by experienced personnel who now how to do the electrical/mechianical alignments of these units. But when in tune, these units will run forever. Whereas, the Strongs and with the central variac controlled action, and loaded with switches, in both brains (optional) and down in the variac base, one have to watch out for these to fail out all of a sudden. Plus those Lamb vacuum motors to drive the platters instead of using Bodine DC motors of the Christie and Speco have much to be desired. Makes one wonder if the CFS (Charlie Film Systems) SuperPlatter copied the Strong/Potts idea? or vice versa..? They kinda look alike...... I love seeing a booth loaded with AW3's. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2005 11:28 AM                     Agreed! Also, if you need parts for your Strong/Potts platter you can usually find them at the hardware store whereas getting a part for an AW-3 means ordering it from the factory or a dealer. Need a new drive tire? Get a vacuum sweeper belt. Need a new switch or a screw? You can probably pick them up locally as well. Blow a platter speed control card? You're down until the order arrives.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 02-11-2005 11:35 AM                     The Super platter is made by a relative of Bob Potts....they had a falling out and Bob went to Design Manufacturing, then an independent contract manufacturer, to produce his Alpha series. The Super platter has been "improved" slightly in the brain area when CFS started distribution.....anybody remember the Blue Diamond platter...another name for early Potts platter. The Super platter is now made in India by the Monee company through an arrangement of Dick Niccum  |  IP: Logged Patrick Matthews Film Handler Posts: 86 From: Kansas City, MO, USA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 02-11-2005 03:27 PM                     Ok here is a follow up to my previous post. To all the folks with Potts/Strong platters (well, I guess anyone) I got everything running ok and it appears to be running ok but when the film is going into the brain it appears to be wrapping once around the brain on the outside and then is taken up. I know this probably isn't good, but is it necessarily bad?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2005 04:00 PM                     Either your system is out of adjustment or it isn't threaded correctly. 1) If the variac at the bottom of the tree isn't adjusted correctly it won't "ask" the motors to turn at the right speed. Your payout will be too slow or too fast. Your takeup will be too tight or too loose. Notice that BOTH payout and takeup speed are controlled by the same adjustment. 2) If the motor(s) that drive the platter(s) are out of adjustment they won't push the platter fast enough even though the variac is asking it to turn at the right speed. This can affect takeup or payout or both. 3) If you are threading the brain incorrectly, the payout control arm won't be pushed back far enough or hard enough to turn on the motor. The film may wrap once around the brain before going into the arm. Be sure the film goes BEHIND the single black roller at the center of the brain. Behind = The side that's closest to the main vertical post. (AKA: "Tree") 4) If you are misthreading the takeup elevator (AKA: "Yo-Yo") incorrectly, it won't be lifted up high enough or it won't fall down far enough to make the variac ask the motors to turn at the right speed. I can't think of a mental picture to describe the threading pattern so I'll just refer you to the manual. There is a good threading diagram in the manual. (RTFM! ) If you have double checked your threading pattern and found that it is correct, according to the manual, then you should go through the testing and calibration procedures listed therein to make sure the variac "zero adjustment" and motor "timing" adjustments are correct. Neither of them are difficult to do. From my memory, they require nothing more than a screwdriver, a wrench and a little patience.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-11-2005 04:14 PM                     From Randy's comments above. 1) What a moronic design. 2) Retarded! 3) Oh look, another lousy design flaw. 4) I have actually never seen anyone misthread this, but I have seen quite often the film fly off of the roller at the very top of the tree and drag across the backside thouroughly destroying the print. Hmmmm, another idiotic design flaw to add to the list? Yup! 5) A screwdriver, wrench and a little patience? You forgot all of the cursing Randy. Randy did forget to mention that the platters are real picky little bitches about being EXACTLY level! If they are just a hair off, they will do that stupid backwards wrap thing. Get a level and practice up on your cursing. Your company should've bought an AW3. (Armed with a tachometer, an AW3 can be fully calibrated in less than 2 minutes with a screwdriver and will outperform ALL other platters by leaps and bounds.)  |  IP: Logged Patrick Matthews Film Handler Posts: 86 From: Kansas City, MO, USA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 02-11-2005 05:10 PM                     Ok I double and triple checked my thread and it isn't wrong. Could it possibly be the microswitch in the brain? Because I ran the film from the top platter with "Brain A" and I just started the movie going from the middle platter to the top platter using "Brain B" and it seems to be paying out much better.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-11-2005 05:15 PM                     Microswitch version, eh? Put a piece of tape on your brains and number them. Then juggle them around and watch what happens. You will find many of them will cause the wrap, others won't (even if everything else is set up as good as possible). I believe Mark Gulbrandsen found a magic microswitch from Grainger that he recommends swapping them out with to help with that problem. Surely he will chime in soon.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2005 11:58 PM                     Well, my platter is level. It was leveled perfectly when it was installed and it has been ever since. I forgot to mention about leveling the platter because, once done correctly, I have never had to think about it since. When it comes to the microswitches, to me they are just another replaceable part, just like the rubber drive tire. Like I said above, you simply run out to the hardware store and get new ones. You have to replace things like tires and spark plugs in your car but you don't get bent out of shape about that. I seem to remember replacing a lot of drive tires on Christie platters over the years. Nobody seems to think that's a big deal. Why should Potts be treated any different? With EVERY brand of platter I have worked with, there is a way to thread the brain incorrectly. If you don't thread the brain correctly, bad things will happen. Out of the platters I have used, Christie's brain is the best, hands down. Yes, you'd have to be stupid to misthread one but I HAVE seen people do it. It ain't pretty. Speco? There's a trick to threading them correctly too! If you don't get the film in there just the right way, it could appear to be running right but it will spite you later on. I have seen people misthread the yo-yo on a Potts. Granted, it's a stupid mistake to make but there ARE some stupid people out there! Once threaded correctly, I have never seen the film just JUMP off the roller(s) at the top of the tree. Yes, if it is misthreaded or if it does jump off you might as well kiss the print goodbye. If the sliding takeup roller on a Speco falls down or is misthreaded it will scratch the hell out of the print too. Same thing goes for a Christie if it's misthreaded. If I had my druthers I'd make some changes in the design of Potts platters. I'd like to see keepers on all of the rollers. Many of those things that Brad mentions are valid complaints and they really ought to be changed. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury. If I REALLY had my druthers I would have bought Christie's. Again... I didn't make the choice. Potts are a cheaper brand. And, as with all things, you get what you pay for. Quality doesn't come cheap but not everybody can afford it. Cheaper things aren't all bad. Some platters are like Cadillacs and some are like Ford Fiestas. When you get right down to it, most of the problems with Potts platters are variations on problems with ALL kinds of platters. Every brand has some degree of problem. It's inherrent in the concept of platters in the first place. When you use platters as your method of film transport you buy into that set of problems and you had better be prepared to deal with them. It's just somehting you have to do when you use platters. Any competent operator SHOULD be able to use Pots/Stron platters without incident once properly trained. (Assuming the equipment is all in working order.) Potts have their problems but they are not insurmountable. I said this before too: If you are having too much trouble with your Potts platters you had better take a serious look at yourself.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-12-2005 02:17 AM                     quote: Brad Miller ). I believe Mark Gulbrandsen found a magic microswitch from Grainger that he recommends swapping them out with to help with that problem. Surely he will chime in soon Switches from Grainger are the 6X-284 .. and they run about $7.80/switch. Only thing one has to do is remove the tension spring under the paddle to make paddle more sensitive to the lever action. Also, these same switches are used in the variac control box at the base, in which the tension spring is to remain. Also, one can goto Honeywell www.honeywell.com and find the original switch that these Strong units use. It'd be the BK series of switch. Yet, the price can be a bit higher than Grainger. In the last month, I've replaced a good dozen brain switches and 4 variac switches on both A3's and the AP3's series. When one "crack" open a worn switch, the contacts inside, which looks like old automotive contacts, will have one contact with a "peak" and the other end with the "pit". With this, the "peak" will still make contact with the "pit" even though the "click" is heard when the switch is actuating. -thx Monte  |  IP: Logged Steven J Hart Master Film Handler Posts: 282 From: WALES, ND, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 02-12-2005 10:09 AM                        Randy, I'm impressed by the way you patiently defend the Potts/Strong design despite the obvious taunting quote: 1) What a moronic design. 2) Retarded! from Brad. Way to not lose your temper! Steve  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-12-2005 11:23 AM                     Strictly from a polemic point of view. (i.e.: Solely for the purpose of debate.) I don't carry a torch for Potts platters but that's the equipment I have to use and there's nothing I can do about it. If the sky opened up and it started raining money I'd be hard pressed NOT to buy a Christie platter. Right now, I'd be better off if I wished for a pony. (Did you know that if you donate equipment to a 501 C (3) institution you can deduct its value from your tax return? There's still time to sneak in a charitable donation if you're on a Fiscal calendar! -- I want a white pony with black spots! ) You can't defend the fact that Potts/Strong platters are cheap. When you buy cheap equipment you have to expect a few idiosyncracies. But, again, I point out that other, more expensive, platters out there have idiosyncracies too. That's life when you use platters. I have six college Work Study students working in my booth. I train several new ones, from scratch, every year. They may not be the best operators in the world but they all know how to use a Potts platter and not scratch the film. It just isn't THAT difficult. You simply have to pay attention to what you are doing and do your job right. Check, double check and tripple check your work. You won't have a problem. If you find that to be problematic then you are, in effect, saying, "I don't know how to do my job right." On one hand, you are saying, "I'm a good projectionist. But, on the other hand, you say, "I can't make {a certain kind of} equipment work correctly." How can you, simultaneously, say that you are a GOOD operator and a BAD one? What?! Are you schizoprhenic?! To be sure, there is some truly bad equipment out there. I hear horror stories about Eprad and CFS platters all the time. Potts are not "Top of the Line" equipment by any stretch of the imagination but, for the price you pay, they are quite adequate. Any reasonably competent projectionist can operate them. If you have more than a few problems operating them correctly then you must not be a competent projectionist.  |  IP: Logged Matt Zeiner Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Windsor, CT USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-12-2005 01:31 PM                     quote: Randy Stankey To be sure, there is some truly bad equipment out there. I hear horror stories about Eprad and CFS platters all the time. Potts are not "Top of the Line" equipment by any stretch of the imagination but, for the price you pay, they are quite adequate. Any reasonably competent projectionist can operate them. If you have more than a few problems operating them correctly then you must not be a competent projectionist. I hear you. I have over 100 screens with various incarnations of Potts platters and various degrees of competancy in the booths. I also have over 100 screens that use AW-3's. HANDS DOWN I spend WAY more time in the field servicing the Christie's. In fact, the Design Manufacturing digital platters have proven (at least in my case) to be completely maintenance free. I have had one PSU module go down in one unit in 5 years of continuous operation at a 20-plex I service, and with the redundant PSU design, the screen never even went down. Over the five years the theatre has been in operation, a mediocre at best projection staff has managed to learn how to use them to provide excellent presentations for their patrons, and long life to their prints. Similarly, I have a 16 with microswitch Strong platters where an equally mediocre staff has managed to do the same. Im sorry Brad, I'm with Randy - so-called "moronic design" flaws aside, it really just doesn't have to be a Christie.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-12-2005 03:08 PM                     Oh my dear poor Steven. Clearly you have issues understanding people's sense of humor when selecting verbage. God forbid you ever read a post of Joe's! Perhaps we should ban the use of sarcasm and non-politically correct worded posts so you don't get your feathers ruffled. Nah, that would be far too boring! Still, you get what you pay for. Strong platters are an exercise in how to fuck up a design. Yes I have ran flawless shows on Strongs and even the dreaded Super platters, but that doesn't change the foolish things in their design that could be easily fixed if Strong gave a damn. For those claiming they have more problems with AW3s than other platters, I'll do the same little reversing thing that Randy is pulling...clearly you are a bad tech and have no idea how to properly calibrate the AW3s! (See how stupid that argument is?) And yes I despise shitty equipment. Get used to it.  |  IP: Logged

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