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Topic: Brain Wraps

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-12-2005 04:13 PM

Actually...I've come across more problems with Christie's too. It has nothing to do with the tech, unless you are talking about calibration problems.

For instance...I had a blown motor control card in an AW3 this week...not a tech issue. I've had AW-3s go down because the work lamp shorted out and there is no fuse (at least on this generation) on those lines...took the transformer out, melted some wires and took the platter down....not a tech issue.

It seems like just about every batch of drive tire in the last 10-years has had some sort of defect to it...too hard, too soft...develops flat spots...not a tech issue (no problems with the Wolk Drive tires thus far and I'd recommend them to anyone with AW3s).

LED module failures...not a tech issue but some are good, some are bad...this was not as long a duration as the drive tires though...then again, you all know how I feel about using visible LEDs for presenting film [Wink]

(or platters for that matter)

The MUT...my pesonal favorite due to its reel orientation and the manner in which film is made up and broken down...but...Christie goes through WAY more controllers than any other brand I've dealt with....not a tech issue.

Based on units we have in service in quantity...the Strong SCDC is the most reliable (zero service calls in years), then SPECO and then Christie.

I too despise the payout totally dependent on take up method of speed control (i.e. Microswitch or phase control)...everything being calibrated perfoectly AND that everyone uses all decks equivalently or there will be speed problems.

In terms of shear film "handling" Kinoton "E" series has em all beat. The payout is near perfect, the tension on the supply and take up is precisely controlled. Their film path is a bit awkward (and changing, at the moment). As to reliability, I don't have enough to pass judgement one way or the other.

Steve

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-12-2005 04:17 PM

quote: Brad Miller

For those claiming they have more problems with AW3s than other platters, I'll do the same little reversing thing that Randy is pulling...clearly you are a bad tech and have no idea how to properly calibrate the AW3s! (See how stupid that argument is?)

I can't begin to tell you how important it is to calibrate your Christie platters! It's absolutely critical! And, once done, it shouldn't need tinkering with. All that it necessary is the occasional check-up with a tachometer.

I have seen too many theaters who let their idiot projectionists tinker with the platter speed controls and then claim that their platters don't work correctly. It got so bad that we did an experiment:

I replaced ALL the parts on ALL the platters in an entire theater. Anything that could conceivably go wrong was fixed. I calibrated every platter... checked and double checked. It took several days to fix every platter in the place. Then I printed up a bunch of stick-on labels on my computer that said, "This platter calibrated: <NAME> <DATE>. DO NOT BREAK THIS SEAL!" The stickers were placed across the access panel door as a tamper-proof seal.

It's almost FUNNY how virtually EVERY problem they were having dried up, virtually overnight! I did this in every other theater that was outfitted with Christies. Same results! Their trouble reports went down by 90%!!

The ONLY time I had trouble reports that wern't attributable to some component failure or to operator error were theaters where I found the tamper seals broken!

So Brad only corroborates my statement: If you have problems with your platter, no matter what the brand, and you claim the platter is at fault you had better go back and take a look at your operating practices before you continue to blame the equipment!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-12-2005 04:47 PM

Just goes to show how things vary from batch to batch Steve. Take two local examples...a 3 year old Strong SCDC 8 plex and count the problems they had up against a local 18 year old AW3 8 plex. The Strong complex has had far more problems at only 1/6th of the age! That may not be representative of Steve's installs, but it's certainly happening locally. Bad batch? Maybe so. That still doesn't address the design that I am complaining about, which people here are trying to twist around into some sort of training excuse.

Speaking specifically on failure rate, I think the SPECO LP270 has everyone beat. They have their problems in the design as well, but you can solve just about all of them except for the "fan effect" by adding keepers, changing out brackets, center rings and such. Ditching their old wooden MUTs for the new ones is also a mandatory update.

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Steven J Hart
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: WALES, ND, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 02-12-2005 10:32 PM

quote:
Oh my dear poor Steven. Clearly you have issues understanding people's sense of humor when selecting verbage. God forbid you ever read a post of Joe's! Perhaps we should ban the use of sarcasm and non-politically correct worded posts so you don't get your feathers ruffled. Nah, that would be far too boring!

Brad, I fully realise you were just stirring the pot with your previous reply to Randy. Just thought credit was due to Randy for being willing to spend a lot of time creating a thoughtful response to your sarcasm.

It may be hard for you to beleive, but some of us up here in the Great White North DO have a sense of humor..... Just consider the fact that we choose to live in an area where the cost of heating is about ten times the cost of A/C [Wink]

Steve

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-12-2005 11:32 PM

It takes a lot more than Brad's debating style to get me bent out of shape. If I said any more about that it'd affect the outcome of the discussion. More on that later if it is necessary.

****

Quality control issues are a whole different kettle of fish from design/operational issues. One who ends up with a defective batch of equipment will have a poor outlook on the product than one who ends up with a well-made batch. There's nothing you can do about that other than try to hold the manufacturer accountable.

The issue was that people were saying Potts platters are so bad as to be not fit for use. Several design faults were pointed out. I stipulated to most of them but I also pointed out other brands of platters which have similar faults. Further, I proposed that those who say a certain brand of equipment is bad before they have taken time to be sure that they are doing everything they way they should be are, themselves, as bad as they claim their equipment to be. At one point, you'll notice I even used ersatz tags... <humor> </humor>... to offset a potentially inflammatory statement.

Now we turn to quality control. It's unfortunate that a piece of equipment as well-designed as the Christie platter is should have QC issues the way it does. With all its flaws, the Potts (microswitch) platter has the advantage of a simpler, less complex design which doesn't depend on electronic circuit boards. Simpler design gives you, the manufacturer, the ability to have better QC. (I said ABILITY. Whether you follow through is a different subject.)

Potts platters are simpler in design, easier to build, easier to maintain quality control and, ultimately, if something does go wrong, easier to repair than virtually any brand out there.

Sometimes "cheap" has advantages.

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 02-13-2005 12:13 AM

I ran a 30 screen for 4-5 years with all strong DMC platters and had very few problems.

The only time that I had a platter go down completely was after a power outage that fried the take-up control board.

I had a few brains die but I had plenty of extras.

My only major complaint with them is the fins under the deck, the decks are too flimsy and they do not wind tight enough.

But, this is a thread about brain wraps, not platter preferences.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-13-2005 02:19 AM

quote: Brad Miller
being EXACTLY level! If they are just a hair off, they will do that stupid backwards wrap thing. Get a level.....

Exactly what I had to do at some theatres with plywood/composite floors. Since with this floor type, nothing is true level (even the machinery). One has to level Strongs, or "hello trouble with my microswitch brains".

One notices that the arms that the decks are mounted on are hindged on a central pivot. One can actually place a 1 inch diameter flat washer inbetween the back of the arm and the tower. This little shim trick can help get those decks as vertical level as possible. Lateral level can be obtained by shimming one or both of the front legs.

Funny why Strong (Custom Design and Manufacturing) doesn't put levelers on those two legs, as does Chrisite. Shoot, even LP-270's had levelers.

There are holes in the feet of the Strongs waiting for some kind of leveling devices....where are they?

Yep, outside of those sensor modules in the AW3(r)'s getting cranky and love to start shorting out causing "platter creep", get out your "platter tach" and tune these babies up and they'll run forever.

Another trick to cure "motor puck flat spots" for the CHR, was to wedge the motor away from the deck that isn't being used, until you get the ones that wouldn't go flat on you. Those rubber wedge style door stops makes great motor wedges..
-Monte

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-13-2005 02:20 AM

Actually, there ARE leveling feet on the Strongs. Lift one leg up and you will see them. [Wink]

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 02-13-2005 05:27 AM

Soon enough we will all have DLPs and won't have to worry about such things... (just kidding.. drop the gun Brad) [Smile]

Seriously, though, Patrick, you should look into getting a SPECO because they are a very stable platter and if you ever have an issue, SPECO is located right across the state line in downtown Kansas City, KS.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-13-2005 05:39 AM

Haha, want to know the sad truth of the matter Jim? I would rather watch a DLP presentation than easily 95% of the 35mm presentations out there right now. [Frown]

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 02-13-2005 02:07 PM

I hear ya there. The last movie I saw in a theatre that wasn't mine had, easily, 40 black lines start to finish over the entire width of the image... If I wasn't doing a competition check at the time I woudl have demanded a refund and left..

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-13-2005 05:32 PM

quote: Brad Miller
Lift one leg up and you will see them.

Whoops - sorry about that, Brad. I meant with the older Alpha Platters. I knew of the newer ones. - thx Monte

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Kevin Raisler
Film Handler

Posts: 52
From: Warsaw, IN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 02-14-2005 01:32 AM

I use Potts platters on 9 screens - Some of them old some new.
Personally I've found that if I change micro switches at intervals of 2 to 3 years I never have machine related brain wraps. [Smile]

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