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Topic: Threading Up a Simplex 35

Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-23-2005 05:32 PM

quote: Randy Stankey
The moral of the story is that, once you have threaded enough projectors, it will become virtually automatic. You won't even think about it anymore. You'll just do it. As long as you keep a good work ethic, it will come out right every time.

So true in fact I've found myself thinking about non-related stuff while threading, get lost in thought, and then find myself wondering how I managed to thread half the theater without remembering ever doing it. It can be scary sometimes when that happens.

I'm also very assertive about "zeroing the intermittent" whenever training noobs. If I find a frame knob twisted, I know they didn't follow directions and I hound them until it becomes 2nd nature.

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Jared Foley
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Madison, IL, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 03-23-2005 05:46 PM

I run Simplex 1050's, and I'm positive something is wrong with the framing knobs. Each one has to be twisted a certain way to ever get a proper image. I've tested this for days, and they HAVE to be messed up somehow. Is there any way they could be "miscalibrated" or something? My instinct says no...

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-25-2005 06:03 PM

quote: Dan Lyons
Once you set your framing with RP-40, there is no need to ever touch the knob again, unless your machine has problems with the framing drifting out of position over time.

...or you run film that has shrunk, or film that was printed slightly out of frame (bi-directional printer?). when i saw steamboy the other day one reel had the hard matte showing at the top of the screen, but all the other reels were ok.

carl

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-25-2005 07:02 PM

quote: Jared Foley
run Simplex 1050's, and I'm positive something is wrong with the framing knobs. Each one has to be twisted a certain way to ever get a proper image. I've tested this for days, and they HAVE to be messed up somehow. Is there any way they could be "miscalibrated" or something? My instinct says no...

Boy howdy yes! On certain models of Simplex's you can push in on the framing shaft on the operators side and then rotate the shaft and knob to set the "Framing" logo so its level,after of course you are sure that its actually in proper frame on screen. Once you know that all the "Framing" logos should be level you can tell at a glance if some dork has messed it up. But keep in mind that not all Simplex framing shafts were created equal and can do this.... Hope this helps...

Mark

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Jared Foley
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Madison, IL, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 03-26-2005 04:45 AM

I've given up on trusting my instinct. Thanks for the tip - I'll be checking it out asap.

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-26-2005 01:08 PM

I'm assuming you set your shutter before you frame - right?

I frequently move the framing knob in our theatre because we are cropping the picture and if I didn't frame down the masking would cut the actors across the forehead.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-26-2005 06:39 PM

quote: Robert E. Allen
I frequently move the framing knob in our theatre because we are cropping the picture and if I didn't frame down the masking would cut the actors across the forehead.

Depending on the shot, that is very often intentional. As a general rule of composition, the horizontal "eyeline" will appear 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down the screen from the top of almost every shot.

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-28-2005 12:24 AM

I'm talking about medium and long shots, Brad. I understand the technique in a close-up. I will usually run it with the top frame line just into the top masking, except when there are sub-titles or datelines ("One year later") at the bottom.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-28-2005 07:51 AM

Huh? Once you set the framing knob with RP-40, you should never need to touch it again, unless you have top masking for scope or need to hide extra-wide negative splices on scope prints. Occasionally a print (usually a 16mm blowup) will come in that needs framing tweaks, but it shouldn't be an everyday occurrence and certainly not for a mainstream wide-release title.

If you don't have RP-40, the SMPTE clock-sweep leader will work acceptably if you can get one that's printed properly. The smaller circle around the number should just touch the upper and lower edges of the 1.85 frame. The larger circle should do the same for 1.33 and should be vertically centered for scope. You need a well-printed leader for this, though, not just something pulled off a random trailer.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-28-2005 08:06 AM

quote: Robert E. Allen
I will usually run it with the top frame line just into the top masking, except when there are sub-titles or datelines ("One year later") at the bottom.

I hate to be the one to break this news to you Robert, but what you are doing is ABSOLUTELY WRONG! While you can get by with that practice when running scope movies, you are giving your customers a horrible presentation using that practice on every flat movie you run. Remember there are 4 perforations to every frame of film, and flat uses up approximately 2 1/2 perforations! So in your comment that you only rack the framing downward when there is a title being cropped off, that tells me that you DO follow that practice on flat films. You must frame EQUALLY between the framelines. You are showing WAY too much headroom, and probably boom microphones and the edges of matte shots and who knows what all else that was never intended to be seen.

Does anyone have a diagram they could post to help Robert understand this concept?

How many years have you been presenting movies in this manner? [Eek!]

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-28-2005 04:01 PM

Yes, for any 35mm format, standard SMPTE 195 specifies that the image centerline is between the perforations at the center of each frame (Dimension J=K).

You do NOT frame with respect to the framelines, but rather with respect to the center of the image as composed by the cinematographer.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-29-2005 02:10 AM

I have never had success in using RP40 film to set framing. It's great for cutting aperture plates or setting masking but I think it's a mistake to use it for setting framing -- even if it *is* technically perfectly-centered -- because actual prints always seem to ride a little high or low.

I prefer to use tail credit screens on trailers (I always try to keep a loop handy) or studio logos with which I'm very familiar. That said, I agree that a competent projectionist should find it unnecessary to adjust the framing knob for each show.

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-29-2005 03:35 AM

I find you simply have to frame according to the movie at hand. For example, Passion Recut has some awful white lines on the top and bottom of the frame everytime there is a shot-change (just like the original did). I made sure my masking and plate were set correctly using 35PA, but ended up have to balance the framing to just barely cut off the white lines from showing up.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-29-2005 08:59 AM

quote: Wolff King Morrow
I find you simply have to frame according to the movie at hand. For example, Passion Recut has some awful white lines on the top and bottom of the frame everytime there is a shot-change (just like the original did). I made sure my masking and plate were set correctly using 35PA, but ended up have to balance the framing to just barely cut off the white lines from showing up

If the original cut negative of a film had an issue of the negative splices intruding into the projectable image area defined by standard SMPTE 195, changing a few scenes is not going to get rid of those non-standard splices. The best option is to cut a custom aperture plate and/or screen masking to show less than the 0.690 inch image height specified by SMPTE 195 so the splice lines don't show up on the screen for that poorly cut movie.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-29-2005 12:34 PM

Wolff, are your scope aperture plates cut for 2.39:1 or were they cut for the older 2.35:1 aspect ratio?

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