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Topic: Manufacturers of new 35/70mm Projectors

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 08:02 PM

What happened to that 70mm print of Oklahoma? Did the whole thing get shredded, or was it just a few feet that got damaged? I'm glad I saw it when I did (in Boston, about seven years ago).

Not much was damaged. Brad, I will let you know who it was but the guy has run alot of 70 and there were other operators present as well.

Also, I'm not 100% sure but their DP75E might be one of the first that was delivered. I'm no where near sold on electronic pull down except for special applications.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-27-2005 08:10 PM

I've no doubt of the guy's experience...but did he have experience with the FP75E??? That's really more of the question.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 08:27 PM

Yes, Its been in that booth for quite a while and used through other film fests and on a dialy basis. Most of the operators there hate the thing.

Mark

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-27-2005 08:55 PM

Who is making 70mm heads?

1. Probably no one.

2. I have 6-8 brand new Teccon/Century 6 track heads.

3. Prob. all Teccon that are "out there" are still more than OK.

4. Relapping is (I understand) not as difficult as making the head the first time. (Check with Clyde McKinney.)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2005 09:27 PM

Electromag will make any type of head you want. They specialize in Mag film heads. Theirs actually perform quite a bit better than Teccons but not as far as the wear aspect. Have pretty much confirmed this performance on mag dubbers.

I've removed alot of Teccons from DP-70's that were beyond use... they last a long time..... but not forever..... The reel question is will a JJ outlast a Teccon head? Definately NOT [Smile]

. That does keep us working though

Electromag

There is one company making ferrite film heads in standard formats... TJB Magnetics. I've never used their products so can't vouch for them at this point.
TJB Magnetics

Mark

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-28-2005 08:05 AM

What was the last 70mm print release that had mag striping? "Far and Away"? "Hamlet"? Who still has operational 70mm striping facilities? The smell of a freshly striped print was unique, but those VOC (volatile organic compound) vapors became increasingly regulated.

http://www.answers.com/topic/volatile-organic-compound

"Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are organic chemical compounds that have high enough vapour pressures under normal conditions to significantly vaporize and enter the atmosphere. (The term VOC is also occasionally used as an abbreviation, especially in biological contexts, for "volatile organic carbon".) A wide range of carbon-based molecules, such as aldehydes, ketones, and hydrocarbons are VOC's. The term often is used in a legal or regulatory context and in such cases the precise definition is a matter of law. These definitions can be contradictory and may contain "loopholes"; e.g. exceptions, exemptions, and exclusions. The term may refer both to well characterized organic compounds and to mixtures of variable composition. Most often the definition used is one from the United States Environmental Protection Agency..."

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-28-2005 09:02 AM

John, I think the last large scale stripping job was the last re-issue of L.O.A. where about half of the new prints were mag striped.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-28-2005 11:39 AM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Sez the operators at the Seattle Cinerama Theatre that tried to run a 30fps print....

I think their problem is an odd occurance rather than indicative of the projector. I've run both of the AFI machines at 30fps with 70mm (and 35mm) and never a hint of hick-up.

There are special venue projectors (Ripley's) that are running dual 70mm 3-D (I think at 30fps...though I would need to confirm) in a day in and day out basis in a Rock-n-roll configuration without issue.

The AFI projectors are run rock and roll 7 days a week. There has been exactly one "over current" on rewind in the two years of operation and it was on one of the 35/16s...the machine performed a shut down.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
BTW: The only way they could get it to run was with the gate tension all the way down.

I don't get that one either...when switching from 24 to 30 fps...I don't recall having to adjust tension and it was always for picture stability on various films.

To be honest, this sounds like a gate that is not properly set up. There are several adjustments on the FP75...including skate height, lower gate position and upper tension. They can be dialed in.

quote: Brad Miller
Are they aware that the omega spring in the Kinotons can drastically alter the ACTUAL gate tension?

Brad, the FP 75E gates are NOTHING like the 35mm gates/skates you are accustomed to. No omega springs...the focus racks is also drastically different (and better).

quote: Brad Miller
Why did the operators not TEST the 30FPS before putting an actual print through the projector? Did they have no junk film to play with for testing purposes? Had they done this, the fuses would've blown with no film damage.

This is an excellent question...I know I have done this with the AFI projectors...which is why I find the claim odd that is being made.

In reference to other questions. I agree with Mark that electronic movements are not necessar for day-to-day theatre projection. Where they can excel is in special venue, rock and roll projectors are in screening rooms were image movement can be precisely controlled.

As to operating the projectors...I know the AFI guys seem to like working with the FP-75s more than the other machines in many respects...the gate closers and focus rack is something that is perferred (as is the tension adjustment). I don't like the 35mm pad shoes...they flex too much. I think it is cool that the centerline of the 35mm optical film and the 70mm film is the same.

The mag heads that came with the machines (10-track) are German in manufacture.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-28-2005 03:14 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
To be honest, this sounds like a gate that is not properly set up. There are several adjustments on the FP75...including skate height, lower gate position and upper tension. They can be dialed in.

Steve,

Were the gate not set up correctly would not all the 24fps stuff they ran also give them problems?

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-28-2005 05:54 PM

The faster the machine is run the more likely the problem is going to show itself. I claim that the gate adjustments were not optimized for 70mm period. I've switched speeds on the fly without problems.

However, if they get it right for 30fps, it will work for 24 fps.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 05-29-2005 05:37 AM

The only problems I ever had with the FP75E were belts for the double shutters breaking and another really interesting one where the lamp ignition would cause a hickup in the electronics which led to a framing offset. Kinoton Berlin got rid of that problem, I can't seem to remember right now what they did though. And the changeover between machines was a little "soft" with both images superimposed for a very brief moment.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-29-2005 07:41 AM

We always power the lamphouse (electronics, fans, ingniter) via the rectifier circuit and NEVER via the projector so I guess that is why we have not encuontered any projector related anomolies via lamphouse ignition.

The c/o is indeed too slow...the problem is that the c/o blades is the same as the lamphouse douser blade...it is heavy steel and is hard to move swiftly... Newton's F=ma applies here. They have not resolved this problem, in my opinion. If they were to make the blade out of aluminum it would be significantly better (and probably used a stronger solinoid.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-29-2005 08:13 AM

Reminds me of our Bauer U4 changeovers (which we have never really tried to make "sharper").

Is it insufficient to delay the douser close on the outgoing projector by a few milliseconds, or would that lead to a perceptible black gap?

--jhawk

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Andrew McCrea
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 645
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-29-2005 12:54 PM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
1. According to Cinemeccaniac/Milan the Vic 8 has been obsolete for at least 20 years. (This was discussed at the factory while they were checking out a "rebuilt.")

Care to elaborate? What's changed? What's wrong?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-29-2005 03:22 PM

quote: John Hawkinson
Is it insufficient to delay the douser close on the outgoing projector by a few milliseconds, or would that lead to a perceptible black gap?

Pennywise can and has done this on their CA21 automation to accommodate for the offset. It is adjustable in 0.1 second intervals. The only problem is that it forces you to let the automation run the show. Manual changeover buttons installed wouldn't have the "fix".

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