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Topic: Manufacturers of new 35/70mm Projectors

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2005 04:12 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
The faster the machine is run the more likely the problem is going to show itself. I claim that the gate adjustments were not optimized for 70mm period. I've switched speeds on the fly without problems.

However, if they get it right for 30fps, it will work for 24 fps.

Are the machines you're running using mag striped prints, DTS, or seperate sound? Agreed that it should work at 30 if optimized. I've got to wonder if the mag tracks were a bit sticky on that print... I brought this up to them. I have to admit though that it makes me wonder that it being that critical at 30 fps of the electronics its running pretty close to its design margins.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2005 04:15 PM

Couldn't you just have a program that does nothing other than "open changeover on machine where changeover is closed, wait .1 seconds, close changeover on other machine" and wire the manual pushbutton to tell the automation to run that program?

I don't know much about the CA21, but I have a hard time believing that you couldn't implement something like that.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-29-2005 06:05 PM

I've run both Mag and DTS 70mm on the FP-75s and at most speeds between 12 and 30 fps. Same with the 35mm.

As to the shutter belt on the machines...that appears to be its weakest point...it is a convoluted path. To reduce the stress on it, they use a dissolving double shutter system to cut the speed on the unit down.

As to control system on the machine...the 70mm projectors use a significantly larger control system (MDE-24) motor...everything is water chilled (18C is the target). Again, I've seen no hint of being near its limit. Remember too, Kinoton uses essentially the same machine for special venue projectors up to 60fps 70mm.

I do understand your concern Mark...though I think either Seattle has an early unit or it was never really set up properly.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 05-30-2005 03:21 AM

quote: Scott Norwood
Couldn't you just have a program that does nothing other than "open changeover on machine where changeover is closed, wait .1 seconds, close changeover on other machine" and wire the manual pushbutton to tell the automation to run that program?

You could, but the actual problem is not timing as such, it is that the dousers are so heavy, it takes them just a fraction of a second too long for X to close and Y to open, so there is a very brief moment when they are both open and the images melt into each other. I heard about an installation which had custom-made titanium dousers and they didn't know that problem...I have never seen it though. It is not really that big of a problem though. We ran those machines during the Berlin International Film Festival which has one of the most demanding audiences in the world. Nobody ever minded. But those who did care for and knew how to look out for image quality were uniformly wowed by what the FP75Es did. Same about the FP38Es we ran - which incidentally have the exact opposite problem: the changeover is a tiny little bit too slow, there is a very brief dark moment.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-30-2005 03:58 AM

quote: Michael Schaffer
And the changeover between machines was a little "soft" with both images superimposed for a very brief moment.

This isn't just a phoblem with thr eletronic machines, I've seen it on FP-30 Ds in more than one place. I've also seen machines where the changeover wasn't quite closed on the incoming machine, and light was leaking around the edge; had to hold hand in front of lens.

The more convetional changeovers like the ones used with Westar/Century machines seem much more positive, and have a definate 'snap' to them, while the Kinotons seem rather sluggish by comparison.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-30-2005 12:14 PM

I was envisioning an analog delay. 0.1 seconds (100ms) sure seems like a long time (2 frames!). Plus, having it work with manual c/o seems a big win.

--jhawk

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-30-2005 03:42 PM

As of 2003 the Victoria 8 was still available as we took delivery of 4 of which one was a dual guage machine

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 05-30-2005 03:47 PM

It seems that the better option, today, is to purchase a good used 35/70mm machine. I would think there would be several avaible. A friend recently purchased two 35/70mm JJ's for installation at a school, and they were a poorly-machined nightmare right out of the box.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 05-30-2005 04:41 PM

quote: John Hawkinson
I was envisioning an analog delay. 0.1 seconds (100ms) sure seems like a long time (2 frames!). Plus, having it work with manual c/o seems a big win.

That should work for the FP75E setup, provided the projectionist has acquired the right "feel" for the changeover in that setup, and presses the button early enough. But then, changing over nicely is to a certain degree a "feel" thing anyway...
We never looked into such solutions, however, because they way it worked was not perceived as being a problem by any.

quote: Stephen Furley
I've also seen machines where the changeover wasn't quite closed on the incoming machine, and light was leaking around the edge; had to hold hand in front of lens.

That sounds like the electro-magnet on which the douser is mounted is offset a little. That should be easy to adjust (provided the douser opens all the way on its pivot). You may also want to look at the douser itself. Maybe it is warped from lamp heat.

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Darren Briggs
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: York, UK
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 06-04-2005 05:02 AM

AS far as I knew you can still buy a brand new Vic 8 now. Had a price for one last year.

Darren

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Thomas Jonsson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Bromolla, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 06-04-2005 02:35 PM

Correct. But the magnetic penthouse is no longer in production.
But I think Cinemeccanica can supply you with used ones in good
condition.

Thomas

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