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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Xenon Bulb blowup damage the truth the myth? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Xenon Bulb blowup damage the truth the myth?
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 06-16-2005 03:44 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it can be nerve wracking when handling a bulb -from a pencil 1k type to a good size 6k bulb. For you just don't know if the thing is going to go with just holding it or what.

I remember when I changed my first bulb and that was in a Cine 1600 vertical lamphouse. Bulb had 8700 hrs on it and dark as pitch. I've heard nasty stories of the dangers of bulb explosions, so dressed up with the protective garb (hotter'n hell in that thing as sweat running from the heat and with the nerves going full tilt...). Got the allens out to loosen up the connections, got the cover over that bulb, took it outside and threw it in the driveway to bust..and the danged thing didn't even pop...just shattered from age. I was disappointed on that one....lol.

One time when I was changing out a 2k in a X-90 "Wrong" unit, I bumped the envelope pretty good on the edge of the mirror as I was pulling it out (wasn't paying attention that time), but no "pop!" - just woke me quite suddenly on paying attention to what I'm doing when extracting a bulb from a small lamphouse area. For I was still used to CHR-SLC consoles with all the room those things had when changing bulbs...and no cables to worry about with those SLC(E) consoles...

I've only had one bulb (2k Osram) explode on me, and that was during a run in an Xetron-35 console back in 1980. The anode spider that supports the front end got tweaked solid somehow and when the bulb was getting hot, exploded when it couldn't expand.

That was a noisy one-the whole cinema heard that one go off.

Many bulbs that I've changed, from the first one that took almost a half hour to do, to where I can do one in 5 minutes..yet I still get nervous on what can happen....

-Monte

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-16-2005 05:36 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From 03-04-2002 Topic: So What Do You Do When A Bulb Explodes?

My worst explosion was with a 2k Osram during a show which shattered the mirror into a million pieces and bent the fan axis beyond further use. The noise of the bang and plume of black smoke was unbelievable and I did in fact suffer from shock until I was able to move the programme to continue on No 2 projector. I sent the remains, the anode and cathode being green in colour to Osram although the bulb had clocked just 700 hours, they did send a free replacement. Our last bulb just died in silence and intact, average lamp life here is 2,500 hours.

quote:
Darren Briggs.

(After calculations we were giving the 2k lamp 95amps, but the meter read 65, great picture for 500 hours though!)

Projection rooms should hold a clamp-on AC/DC meter to check rectifiers. I found one very useful when I first changed to xenon being supplied from old Westinghouse rectifiers, which originally were made for 3 electrode bulbs. I later updated to T & R rectifiers but still kept a check on the current.

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 06-16-2005 05:58 AM      Profile for Wolff King Morrow   Author's Homepage   Email Wolff King Morrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats some pretty low lamp life you have there for OSRAMS. I take my 2ks out after 3500 hours and they look nearly crystal-clear, with only very slight darkening in a few spots on the glass. Maybe because I have plenty of airflow and I enforce a strict policy of letting the machines cool down for 15 mins before turning them off each night. Anyway, my 4ks I take out when they reach 3000 hours. I've only had one bulb that had to be removed prematurely at 2600 hours, which was because the anode deformed to the point of causing arc flicker.

The only "incident" I've had was when I installed a new 4k bulb that failed to work when I turned it on. It made all sorts of sparks inside the envelope, so I quickly turned it off (and was later correctly told the bulb was a "leaker" here on the forums). I got a strange reaction from the rep on the phone when they asked how many hours were logged on it. I said "10 seconds" and they couldnt believe it.

Anyway, bulb changes scare the hell out of me every time I do one. I feel like I'm in a bomb squad, only the pay rate isnt the same.

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Marc Hansen
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-16-2005 07:41 AM      Profile for Marc Hansen   Email Marc Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Aaron Garman
I've got some darn thick gloves, a mask, but nothing for my body. Any ideas on what I could get on a modest budget?
Leather welding jackets are pretty cheap. Any welding supply shop will have them.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-16-2005 10:28 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pirate Phil sez:
quote:
NEVER trust the published/manual specs for air flow for a lamphouse! While it is very important to cool a lamp properly (the envelope as well as the seals) it's equally important NOT to over-cool the lamp!

Which, I gotta tell ya, isn't the most comforting thing I've ever heard. I mean, first I was worried about everything getting too hot because this is an outdoor venue and typically the ambient temp in that booth is like 95-100 degrees on a hot August night. I stuck this Granger fan that is built into a 8" stove pipe on top of the ORC lamphouse (4500K bulb) as an extra bit of cooling "just in case." I figured sucking out more heat from the lamphouse can only be a good thing. But here's this over-cooling issue to give me more heartburn. Do I really have to worry about this too?

Welp, nothing has exploded yet, and the bulbs are in no way distorted -- I am assuming that if the additional cooling were adversly affecting the bulb (uneven temps on the envelope?), there would be some signs of it....or an explosion, or both, whichever comes first as they say. I've seen a bulb from a lamphouse that had faulty exhaust and it had a buldge in the envelope. Nothing like that so far.

And while we are at it, bulbs that I have seen in one of the theatres were all encased in a hard plastic hinged case. The Osram bulbs that we have are only wrapped in this kind of Seran wrap thing with shoe laces attached to hold it in place. To be honest, that looks pretty flimsy to me. Can that soft plastic wrap really be any help if the bulb decideds to become a grenade? The hard plastic case looks a lot more substantial. And further, that damn plastic wrap sticks like glue to the bulb, and me being the wimp that I am, I put the bulp in the lamphouse, wrap and all. The idea being, that I want to make that time the bulb and me are together without the added barrier as short as possible. Then, once it is in place in the lamphouse, I TRY to pull the wrap off, but it's not easy -- you have to pull and tug at it because it sticks like glue to the bulb, which, as I said, being the wimp I am, is pretty damn nerve-racking.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 06-16-2005 11:20 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
Can that soft plastic wrap really be any help if the bulb decideds to become a grenade?
I guess there's an easy way to find out: simply drop a worn-out bulb inside its 'condom' onto a hard surface (e.g. a car park) from a great height (e.g. the roof of a theatre), after first having cleared the drop zone of humans. If the bulb remains intact, then the plastic shell is so tough there's no need to worry anyway. If it explodes and the debris is contained then the shell held. If it explodes and the shell fails to contain the debris, then Osram needs to go back to the drawing board.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 06-16-2005 01:24 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
I guess there's an easy way to find out: simply drop a worn-out bulb inside its 'condom' onto a hard surface
Did that with an ORC (Perkin Elmer) bulb and that's quite dangerous since the ends go flying everywhere and the quartz shards fly through the wrapped ends as well. Very poor protective quality...and this was done in an empty trash dumpster.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-16-2005 03:22 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have dropped an ORC/PE in the plastic wrap and it did contain the explosion, though it ripped holes into the wrapping and the ends shot out from it a few feet. Better than a bare bulb exploding, I guess.

-Aaron

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-16-2005 04:43 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Aaron Garman
I've got some darn thick gloves, a mask, but nothing for my body. Any ideas on what I could get on a modest budget?
I wear a heavy Carhartt work/hunting jacket.

 -

But I live in Pennsylvania. Practically all male children born in Pennsylvania are issued one at birth. [Wink]

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Dennis J. Losco
Film Handler

Posts: 39
From: Phillipsburg, NJ, USA
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 06-17-2005 08:42 AM      Profile for Dennis J. Losco   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis J. Losco   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Superior uses the vinyl wrap on lamps all of the way up to our 32,000 watt lamps. This wrap has been approved by the US military and will protect the user. Although I can not vouch for other manufacturers wraps. Obviously the thickness of the vinyl is important. We went with the wrap so you can keep it on the lamp while installing. Also todays market has become very competitive and the hard plastic cases are expensive and hard to dispose of.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-17-2005 09:06 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you supposed to leave the "condom" on the bulb when installing it? I never have, but I can see how it might be a good idea for safety reasons. I can also see how removing it after the bulb is installed might lead to reflector damage (to say nothing of _not_ removing it prior to striking the bulb!).

I don't doubt that the vinyl "condoms" that SQP is using are sufficient to contain a bulb explosion, but I still feel better with the plastic shells that Osram uses.

I've changed bulbs ranging from 350w to 3kw and have operated lamphouses up to 5kw. I've had one explosion (a 2kw LTI which exploded mid-show at ~1200 hours). It sounded like a large plate-glass window breaking and shards of quartz ended up in the shutter guard housing of the projector and all throughout the lamphouse and on the floor around it.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-17-2005 09:44 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dennis J. Losco
Superior uses the vinyl wrap on lamps all of the way up to our 32,000 watt lamps. This wrap has been approved by the US military and will protect the user.
Speaking of the government and military (who use lamps for searchlights and solar simulation), here is the Xenon Safety Manual used by NASA at the Glenn Research Center:

http://smad-ext.grc.nasa.gov/gso/manual/chapter_26.pdf

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Dennis J. Losco
Film Handler

Posts: 39
From: Phillipsburg, NJ, USA
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 06-17-2005 09:58 AM      Profile for Dennis J. Losco   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis J. Losco   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have had suggestions to go to a plastic tube that slides over the lamp, which would be more economical. The plastic cases are nice but the molds are really expensive to get started. Speaking of the vinyl wrap..we have had customers that left it on the bulb, ran it, and then called us to see if it was ok to peel it off and reuse the lamp??? Here's your sign.

NASA Glen is a good customer of ours. It is amazing what they do with these lamps. You think a 7kw bulb is bright ..how about 37each 32,000 watt lamps focusing down to one mirror..thats at JPL in California.

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Darren Briggs
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: York, UK
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 06-17-2005 03:16 PM      Profile for Darren Briggs   Author's Homepage   Email Darren Briggs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I Like the SQ wraps, as you can just about put the lamp in any lamphouse and then get it off.
The plastic caddy's are not suitable to be left on in all lamphouses. Cant use them on Cinemeccanica CX16/20/21 Zenith 4000H etc and Chirstie CP2000.

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Ferdinando Innocenti
Film Handler

Posts: 79
From: Genova / Italy
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted 06-17-2005 03:49 PM      Profile for Ferdinando Innocenti   Email Ferdinando Innocenti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
what's interesting is how black the anode end and the cable is when that 4k took off in that Prevost lamphouse. Not enough cooling, and the front seal let go?
No, Monte, the blower was right; in Prevost lamphouse, there is a board which controls blowers.

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