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Author Topic: Aerated Oil Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-08-2005 06:54 PM                    These units are 1 year old. Are the seal kits something else we'd have to get and install? Or is there a way to tell if our machines already have the kit. I'm just not that familiar with simplex's to know.. Thanks  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-08-2005 10:02 PM                     Nope, yours should have them from the factory. Just don't fill it half way up the gear window though . Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-08-2005 10:45 PM                     I just did a small service work on a Mil2000 (checking for lower bearing noise in that vertical shaft with the back being off) and this machine bubbles the oil pretty good-even from a cold start and let run for a few seconds. The oil was changed about 2months ago and remembering this thread, I checked out the oil's viscosity and I've noticed that the thickness was rather thin-almost like water (kinda like a "0" weight to an "5" weight). Yet, this oil came from the stock Simplex can - not by CPI or any other manufacturer. Maybe the bubbling comes from the viscosity itself not by air entering the system. One of the obvious tricks with the seal kits if you have leakage coming from within the belt sprocket, leakage from around the sprocket, or the gasket itself. The seal will wear a groove around the sprocket's outer shaft - and find out which kind of belt you use - either the square tooth variety, or the round tooth variety when ordering the replacement kit. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-09-2005 12:54 PM                    We have a loud projector too, although the noise seems to be coming from the intermittent. The noise started about 3 months after installation and we were told it was normal. I disagree. We have the Simplex 35 millenium. The noise comes from what appears to be the operators side near or at the intermittent. Is this common? suggestions? I am used to working with the Christies and dont look forward to digging into an oily mess.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-09-2005 01:41 PM                     If those Mil2000s are only 3 months old and you have intermittent noise, that's a warranty concern. Check with your tech/installer for such information. Don't rip into a machine that new.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-09-2005 10:20 PM                     A noisy intermittent on a new projector is a tough call. Just because it makes SOME noise doesn't necessarily mean it's going to blow up. On the other hand, it might just puke on you right in the middle of your next show. I'd have to hear it to know for sure. Assuming everything else is okay: If it makes a ticking sound while running at regular speed but the picture is steady you're probably OK. It will likely go away as the projector breaks in. If it makes a "Ka-Chunk! Ka-Chunk! Ka-Chunk!" sound as it's slowing down at the end of a show, I'd keep an eye on it. It's the sign of a problem brewing. An intermittent that does this could run for years with no problems but it could suddenly shit the bed, too. If it makes a "Rattle! Rattle!" or a "Clack! Clack!" sound while running at speed or if the picture becomes unsteady, YOU'VE GOT TROUBLE! Get it fixed now and it will save you a whole lot of trouble down the road. If the intermittent freezes up on you in mid show it WILL do film damage and it will POSSIBLY tear the livin' shit out of your gears. Depending on the make of the projector, it's a virtual certainty that you'll need new belts. If its only 3 months old, take advantage of your warranty now. If it blows up on you after the warranty period the powers-that-be will ask, "If you knew it was going bad, why didn't you do something sooner!?" Now, you ARE only 3 months into the warranty period so you still have time to consider your gambit: Will the problem go away as the projector breaks itself in? Or, will it get worse? I would monitor it closely. If it doesn't get better in a short time, get it fixed. Keep records!! Be anal about it!! Send a memo to your boss! Be sure you are RELIGIOUS about keeping that machine (and all the others) clean and oiled. Sign and date EVERYTHING! Make copies of everything and keep the dupes in a safe place. If that machine bites the dust... when it does... your ass will be covered. IF there's a question of WHO was responsible and WHY it didn't get fixed, it won't be your head that's on the chopping block. Quite the contrary. You COULD save your company thousands of dollars! * Cost of new intermittent = $2,000.00 ($1,000.00 for a rebuilt one.) * Cost of other parts = anywhere from $100.00 to $1,000.00 * Paying a tech to repair it = $40.00/hr + travel. (Likely several hundred dollars.) * Minimum down time of 1-3 days. (Average ticket price X the number of admissions lost.) = EASLILY a couple-few thousand! * Loss of concessions = your theater's per-cap X the number of lost admissions. * Loss of "Goodwill" with your customers. (Incalculable!) Remember when I said, "$2,000.00 intermittent for lack of 20¢ worth of oil."? Add up all those things and you COULD be talking more like $5,000.00! If you blow up an intermittent due of lack of attention on your part, don't come crying to me when your boss comes to tell you he has to cut payroll and takes a day off your schedule!  |  IP: Logged Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-09-2005 11:55 PM                     Frank, I would suggest getting a tech who is familiar with simplexes to come and look at it. If it is a problem with the machine, it should be fixed under warranty, assuming the projector was new from the factory, and not possibly from a dealers used stock. If the tech says, "no, that is normal", then you've only burned a little money! Do you have more than 1 simplex? Just my .02 Rick  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-10-2005 02:05 AM                    yes we do have more than one, and the others are not making that noise. Its a loud clicking noise as the intermittant goes around. it IS loud enough to be heard a few rows down inside the auditorium. I did tell the boss and the boss's boss. Nothing has been done. Usually if I dont keep on top these things, they get forgotten. Anyone know off hand how long a warranty for a new simplex 35 millenium is? I have looked at this several times and cant really pinpoint WHY its making the sound..they have always had oil. It sounds like its really coming from the operators side of the projector, but without being able to take the back piece off while the proj is running, I cant really tell. Like I said, I just dont know much about these Simplexes yet. Would a dab of oil somewhere around the intermittant help any? I've used projectors in the past that like a drop of oil to the intermittant. not sure if these are the same. I'm trying to locate our manuals for these units to do some readin up.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-10-2005 02:51 AM                     Warranties on Simplexes are for a year after purchase. Sounds like the assembly (like the movement cover) isn't properly aligned and the cam isn't entering into the starwheel at the exact point and causing the ticking (which is warranty stuff-leave alone). Is the ticking noise with the shoe assembly closed on the sprocket, or open. If closed, the teeth of the sprocket is ticking against the shoe assembly, in which the sprocket is out of alignment with both shoes. The outboard edge of the sprocket should be flush with the flat side of the outer shoe. This is where the sprocket can be loosen up and slid over the shaft to make that edge of the sprocket be flush with the shoe-then retighten up the bolt and nut assembly. Is the oil pump delivering the oil properly and is there a good spray in the back? Units, especially movements not getting the proper oiling will be noisy as well. If the oil is just "drip,drip,drip" out of the delivery tube above the slinger, then the movement is running pretty well dry (meaning the pump filter screen is plugged good and needs to be taken out an cleaned..). -Monte  |  IP: Logged Mike Pennell Expert Film Handler Posts: 150 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 08-10-2005 05:32 AM                     Mark, what's the part number for the seal kit and what is it comprised of?  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-10-2005 06:23 AM                        Intermittents should not make ANY noise. Run in should be performed at the factory. If yours makes noise, it is NOT a "pristine, factory new product." Most of the discussion above has concerned itself with "placing or avoiding responsibility." Given that not all factory intermittents are quiet; it is someone's judgement call as to try again with another which may or may not be quiet. BTW: run in in NOT a month-long afair unless something is wrong. In the best of cases it could be a few seconds; in the worst, a few hours. Louis  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-10-2005 08:23 AM                     Louis is exactly correct on that, no noise should be heard at all. The biggest problem with the antiquated X-L movement is that the outer bearing is still a piece of crap oilite bushing. Sometimes this bushing runs dry or the end cap is set too tight against it and then it makes quite a bit of noise. Put a couple of drops of oil in the area where that end cap meets the bushing and then turn the machine over by hand to let the oil work in, then let sit for 5 to 10 minuites to let it really work in and then run a show and see if things are any quieter than before. When I rebuild X-L movements I always install a new outer bushing and I machine an oil sink into it so they can be easily oiled on a regular basis and so that the oil will actually go into the porus oilite material. In reality that bushing should be replaced with something a bit more up to date. Mike, You'd have to call our ofice, 801-355-1250 and ask to talk to Vince about that kit, or call Stong, 1-800-424-1215. Pricing is different on each kit depending on what sound head you have, of course we discount our pricing though. The kit includes a new bearing retainer flange with seal pressed in place in that flange, a new frive pulley/gear that has the O.D. ground where the seals lip rides, the correct spacers for the drive gear/pulley, new hardware and a teflon washer to seal the end of the shaft inside the gear by the retaining nut. Installation is less than 30 minuites. When you install it place the new retainer on the machine and leave that retaining hardware loose. Then install the new drive pulley/gear but be sure to put some oil on the O.D. of the gear first. Then put the gear on being careful to make sure that the key also slides in place properly. Then tighten up the bearing retainer hardware and then the gear/pulley retaining hardware. Doing it in this manner with the gear already on the shaft guarantees that the seal is properly centered as much as is possible. I generally don't install the included O-rings onto the framer shaft as Strong has not done that part of the mod correctly..... sometimes those 5 cent O-rings will extrude out of place and then you have a big oil leak... the dam fools were too cheap to machine in a 30% depth groove for the O-rings to seat into.... stick with the flat seals if thats whats on your machine already, they actually work better. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-10-2005 12:51 PM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen machine an oil sink into it so they can be easily oiled on a regular basis Yo, Marko - With a lot of us running these "pot metal boat anchors", could the lot of us do this retrofit on those bearing collars so we could oil them and what would be the trick in doing this..(if possible, for I was wondering about how would it be easy, outside of dripping oil between the collar and bearing..) thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-10-2005 02:27 PM                    Monte, the intermittant makes teh same noise whether the show is open or closed, thats the first thing I thought of. The projector is spraying a very generous amount of oil, so there doesnt seem to be a problem there. Sounds like its a bad assembly job then. In other news, I have found out that this (along with one other) projector is NOT under warranty. The new units are working fine. So...being out of warranty...is this a project that can be attempted by someone not intimately knowledgable with Simplexes?? I'd like to learn more about these, but wouldnt want to jump into something that is extremely complex.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-10-2005 05:06 PM                     quote: Frank Dubrois So...being out of warranty...is this a project that can be attempted by someone not intimately knowledgable with Simplexes?? It really all depends how mechanically and tech minded one can be to understand the complexity of delicate and absolute inner workings of any machine. STRONG has a repair/exchange program that you can check into. Call up 1-402-453-4444 and ask for this info. -Monte  |  IP: Logged

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