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Author Topic: Improve 35mm Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 03-10-2006 08:59 PM                        Please bear with me while I re-cap. 100,000 cinemas are presenting 35mm film, most of them on screen sizes well within the capability of that gauge, unless it is cropped too much. The case for gigantic screens belongs on the 70vsDC epic. The vast majority of commercial feature output is being shot on 35mm film now and will be for at least five years to come. Film is too good. Still. The economic model is too solid to change to DC yet. Most of those features are being shot in a format that uses too small a portion of the film for image, whether 1.85 or scope on Super 35. Significant advances in film stocks and lenses have made it possible for film makers to be so wasteful. People on this forum never sleep so I thought we might be getting some positive ideas by now. An alternative film advance technology would provide a steadier image. Isn’t there a telecine example that could be developed? Projectors in 1953 were routinely running film with CS perfs. CS perfs on a 35mm negative leave 26.5mm width for the image. Without scaring the horses, we could increase the image area on 35mm negative substantially. A larger frame captured would be far better than current Super 35 for blow up to 70 and reduction to 35. 5/35CS anamorphic compared with Super 35 doubles the area. Does anyone have a better idea?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-10-2006 09:39 PM                     Ron, ISCOvision in the mid 1980s used a mild anamorphic squeeze on 35mm film for the purposes of using the entire available area for 1.85:1 films. It was proven to be brighter, steadier, sharper...etc...net result...dead. Mr Pytlak also tried to revive this concept much more recently to revive this idea...net result...dead. I do contend that 35mm film is NOT adequate for the majority of theatres today. If your screen is over 30-feet wide, 70mm would have a very noticable improvement. I know of someone that is trying to develop a 48fps 35mm system that is 100% compatible with existing 24fps projectors (unlike Maxivision 48). While the image area is not improved, the frame rate should improve the perception of motion and detail in moving objects. Another thing that could improve 35mm release prints is to shoot the film in 65mm or vista vision 35mm and release in anamorphic, regardless of aspect ratio (1.85 or 2.39). Light will be improved, steadiness will be improved and theatres will only need one lens (reduced costs).  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 03-10-2006 09:51 PM                        At last! Thoroughly agree with the anamorphic release print for any ratio. The opening scenes of Horse Whisperer and Brother Bear are good examples (and didn't the audience love it when the masking opened to full width). There is an added benefit that cinemas could justify the cost of the best lens - Isco/Schneider.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-10-2006 09:59 PM                        quote: Steve Guttag I do contend that 35mm film is NOT adequate for the majority of theatres today. If your screen is over 30-feet wide, 70mm would have a very noticable improvement. The best screens in Eugene are in relatively large houses (~480 seats) with relatively small screens: ~30' in scope. The image quality is often truly outstanding. It's pretty rare to see anything look as good on larger screens. It almost seems like 40' is the practical upper limit for "acceptable/good". Beyond that, things seem to go downhill quickly. Just my personal observation.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 03-12-2006 02:47 PM                       Just curious; on what do you base the figures 30 (or 40) feet as the upper limit for 35mm? If you sit further away from a screen, say, 50% larger with the same lenses and screen illumination, shouldn´t the image look about the same? Or do you mean the increased light will cause too much heat flutter? Thomas  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-12-2006 03:38 PM                     It is true that if you sit further away, a smaller guage film will look identical (grain wise). Above 40-feet, heat does start to play a significant factor on projecting the smaller gauges.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-13-2006 09:37 AM                        For those who are SMPTE members, here is the presentation I gave about "Scope 1.5X, Squeezing Even Higher Quality from 35mm Prints": http://smpte.org/members_only/library/download.cfm?file=pytlak.pdf (SMPTE Membership is required to access SMPTE on-line library) With the current 35mm "scope" image area of 0.825 x 0.690 inches, a 1.5X anamorphic system give an aspect ratio of 1.79:1 --- and an increase of 1.5X in light efficiency and image area over the "flat" format (and matches the aspect ratio of 16:9 widescreen HD for video release). Unfortunately, both Mr. Berggren's 1982 "IscoVision" presentation and my more recent SMPTE presentation and demo "fell on deaf ears", or more appropriately "blind eyes".  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 03-18-2006 10:03 PM                        Could it benefit our cinemas if Film Tech or their agents issued a lobby card to customers saying something like: We use the FilmGuard process so films look their best. I should imagine that the cinemas where the system is in use clean the port glass occasionally and know where the focus and framing knobs are.  |  IP: Logged

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