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Topic: How are 70mm prints packaged for delivery?

Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-08-2006 11:13 AM

When the 8 hour plus Russian version of “War and Peace” was screened in 70mm at the Curzon, Mayfair in London, there was a picture in one of the national newspapers of the projection room and the projectionist, with all the umpteen reels displayed.

I remember showing the 35mm version at the Phoenix, (previously the Rex) East Finchley in North London one Saturday during my last freelance days. There were three built in Intermission reels.

War and Peace (1968)

Runtime: UK:401 min (video version) / UK:511 min / USA:390 min
Country: Soviet Union
Language: Russian
Color: Color (Sovcolor)
Sound Mix: 70 mm 6-Track (70 mm prints) / Mono: RCA Sound System (35 mm prints)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-08-2006 02:46 PM

Remember, the 70mm reel with a 22" flange and 8" hub was designed around accommodating a Todd-Ao film such as Oklahoma! which would have been mag-stiped AND run at 30fps. Those are the only films that have the reels look reasonably full.

Older titles that had 4-track mag counterparts...it is the 35mm prints that set the reel balance since those would fill up first. When you see one of those titles on 70mm reels, the reels look rather empty.

Now add in a modern film without mag tracks and printed on polyester stock and you get an even more empty looking reel.

The 70mm version will only by 25% longer (5-perfs versus 4) yet it has a notably larger flange.

Steve

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Thomas Dieter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 234
From: Yakima, WA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 04-09-2006 11:30 AM

My question for your guys now as Steve is going about how full reels get as you increase or decrease the size of the format. Naturally I would think the movie Titanic would have been on more reels in 70mm, but we have established they they were the same as 35mm. For those movies that do have more reels on 70mm, do they try to keep the change overs in about the same spot as their 35mm counterpart?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-09-2006 12:41 PM

My experience with 70mm is that the reel changeovers are in the same place. In some cases the exchanges mounted 2 70mm reels togather to reduce the shipping since the reel was designed for toddao at 30fps

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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-10-2006 01:36 AM

Fox´s new 70mm prints are delivered in 70mm cans on cores.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-10-2006 08:50 AM

Yeah - and in a few years, 70mm will be found in bodybags...
Uh, it's sad !

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Floyd Justin Newton
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 559
From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 04-10-2006 05:49 PM

Yeah - and in a few years, 70mm will be found in bodybags..

Per-- How true and how sad.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-11-2006 08:02 AM

70mm is still very much alive in IMAX theatres and other large format venues. IMHO, the "pull" for a revival of 5-perf 70mm must come from exhibition, who need to convince distributors that 70mm prints are needed for the largest screens, and that theatres have the skill and equipment to handle the more expensive prints properly.

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 09-07-2006 06:34 PM

quote: Brad Miller
Titanic was 10 reels, just like it's 35mm counterpart. However when inspecting I assembled them onto 5 reels with plenty of space leftover on the shipping reels before plattering it, so that title could've easily fit on 5 standard length 70mm shipping reels.

The reason is because this was not a mag striped print and was also polyester base.

Given a modern 70mm print with DTS sound and polyester base, what does the maximum capacity of the standard Todd-AO shipping reel become? One could work it out mathematically, but how much of a shortfall should one leave towards the rim of the flange so you don't have slippage or shearing when handling, etc.?

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-08-2006 11:11 AM

quote: John Pytlak

I assume those had to have a splice somewhere in the middle of the reel?

Many of the 1960s 70mm prints I screened (last was SHOES OF THE FISHERMAN) had lab splices, even when the reels were only three-quarter full.

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Richard P. May
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 09-08-2006 11:31 AM

Basically, these things just get heavy. When working on preservation of AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS, we borrowed a print from the Library of Congress. Someone had combined reels one and two, and it was quite a load just to get it onto a rewind.
In the heyday of 70mm, before platters, these reels had to be kept down to where the projectionist could lift them onto the upper magazine without going over backwards.
BEN-HUR's longest reel was not over 12 minutes. Mag striping, or course, added to the thickness, and also weight.

RPM

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 09-08-2006 12:53 PM

quote: Richard P. May
BEN-HUR's longest reel was not over 12 minutes. Mag striping, or course, added to the thickness, and also weight.

Should have seen the 35mm counterpart of "BEN-HUR": 16 - 12 to 13 minute reels of mag-optical, IB technicolor film.There were also 165m release versions of this on Eastman on 9 reels.

Brad: was that 70mm print of "Titanic" encoded with the DTS track then since the print had no mag striping? I first thought of mag dubbers, but kinda think that process would be a little ancient for standard 5/70 releases, thus pointing towards the digital track.

-Monte

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 09-08-2006 05:08 PM

Weight was one reason the Union wanted two operators for 70mm. In my experience 70mm prints were identical to 35mm both in number of reels and changeover locations.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 09-08-2006 06:43 PM

quote: Rick Raskin
In my experience 70mm prints were identical to 35mm both in number of reels and changeover locations.

...and attached trailers.

quote: Monte L Fullmer

was that 70mm print of "Titanic" encoded with the DTS track then since the print had no mag striping?

Yes.

And the original 35mm image was enlarged in a fashion where it did not extend to the outer edges of the 70mm print's frame area; the left and right edges of the image were positioned at the innermost point of where the mag stripes would normally be. In other words, hand inspecting a print would reveal a bit of black matting on the left and right edges, but if projected with a proper 2.20:1 (or close to that) plate, then the image would properly fill the screen.

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-09-2006 12:54 PM

quote: Rick Raskin
In my experience 70mm prints were identical to 35mm both in number of reels and changeover locations.

In 1970 I visited the booth at Radio City Music Hall during the run of "Airport" in 70mm. At that time it was standard practice at the Music Hall to receive 4 prints of each feature. I asked one of the projectionists if they had 4 70mm prints of "Airport". He said they only had 2 70's but they also had 2 35's for backup. He went on to complain that the film was 6 reels on 70 but 8 reels on 35. "If we have a problem, we won't know what part of the picture we're in".
Eveyone should have such problems.
Bob

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