Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How are 70mm prints packaged for delivery?

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » How are 70mm prints packaged for delivery? (Page 3)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3

Author

Topic: How are 70mm prints packaged for delivery?

Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-10-2006 12:27 PM

quote: Robert Burtcher
print was in individual reel cans, and there were 28(!) of them

This might have been 2 prints plus some odd reels, or 3 prints with a couple of the reels containing 2 reels worth of film.

| IP: Logged

Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 09-10-2006 04:12 PM

quote: Robert Throop
the film was 6 reels on 70 but 8 reels on 35

Which makes me wonder if the 70 was just rolled on until the reels were filled? Add spliced on leaders and scribed cues and you have a recipe for sloppy changeovers. I once had a print where a changeover occurred right in the middle of Julie Andrews singing a solo number. We were good -- but not that good as to match frame for frame and not cut any words.

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 09-10-2006 06:42 PM

..with this, couldn't one have undo the splices to get the proper reel changeover sequence correct for the 70mm prints, to correspond with the 35mm release prints?

Might have been some time to do this, but it seems that it could have also been possible.

(Unless, the 70mm prints were roadshow versions and the 35mm were standard release versions....)

-Monte

| IP: Logged

Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 09-10-2006 06:45 PM

quote: Robert Throop
At that time it was standard practice at the Music Hall to receive 4 prints of each feature

Crikey! Those were the days!

FWIW if anyone's interested, I've found an equation that John Pytlak kindly posted here before to determine reel capacity:

quote:
The roll diameter can be calculated from the following equation:

D = Squareroot [ ( (48 x L x t) / Pi) + (C x C) ]

Where:
D is roll diameter in inches
L is length of film roll in feet
t is film thickness in inches (about 0.0053 for Kodak VISION Color Print film)
C is core/hub diameter in inches

For example, for a shipping reel with a 4-inch core, and a film thickness of 0.0053 inches, 2000 feet of film will have the following diameter:

D = Squareroot [ ( (48 x 2000 x 0.0053) / Pi) + (4 x 4) ]

= 13.3 inches

If the reel diameter is known for 70mm (22 inches), and if one leaves a reasonable gap to the rim when fully wound of 0.5 ins, then D, the roll diameter, becomes 21 inches. The objective here is to find L, where:

C = 8 inches (typically) and
t = 0.0053 ins

Thus,

D = Squareroot [ ( (48 x L x t) / Pi) + (C x C) ] >>
21 = Squareroot [ ( (48 x L x 0.0053) / Pi) + (64) ] >>
21 = Squareroot [ ( (0.2544 x L) / Pi) + (64) ] >>
21 x 21 = [ ( (0.2544 x L) / Pi) + (64) ] >>
441 = (0.080978 x L) + 64 >>
377 = (0.080978 x L)
Therefore L = 4655.6 Feet or,

4655 ft 7 ins approx.

At 112.5 ft per minute (at 24fps), this yields a running time of 41 minutes 23 seconds, approx.

So certainly two 20 minute reels (in DTS-70) could be doubled up today for 70mm...or so it looks.

| IP: Logged

Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-12-2006 12:00 PM

Some 70mm release print reels were comprised of A, B, and C rolls. That is, the 70mm reel is equivalent to 1 and 1/2 reels of 35mm (only A and B rolls).

One example of a print that had some A/B/C 70mm reels is Rollerball (1975). The 70mm version was 5 reels.

Another example is Panorama Blue (1974) which shipped on 3 full reels.

| IP: Logged

Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 09-14-2006 08:42 AM

That's very interesting, and prompts further questions about joining rolls in today's H&S-aware environment.

Note how some 70mm users recommend the use of lifting aids, etc. So you can increase capacity, but then you're into new film handling procedures to avoid backstrain / hernias, etc.

Perhaps this is another argument in favour of shipping prints on cores and in cans - but what pitfalls could there be with that solution?

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-14-2006 09:59 AM

To me, the biggest problem with shipping/storing 70mm on cores is that the cores are significantly smaller than the standard shipping reel hub (8") and are thus going to take on a core-set.

Other than that and the usual core/can problems (bad winds, loose winds, missing cores, destroyed cans, missing cores), I like the concept of shipping on cores.

I am not in favor of building up the reels though..particularly on magnetic 70mm...especially if the heads/tails are in tact. Since the magnetic head is prior to the gate, the splice in the sound telegraphs the upcoming splice in the picture.

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 09-16-2006 10:50 AM

I'm under the impression that IMAX gets shipped around on cores frequently. Do they see core set issues?

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-16-2006 11:31 AM

I notice more "core set" on the 35mm-mag soundtrack, especially if it's been stored on a 2-inch core instead of a 3-inch or ideally a 4-inch core. I have not had "core set" issues with 70mm IMAX prints.

IMAX prints ship from the laboratory on 3-inch cores. If I receive a print on cores, I inspect and rewind onto normal 70mm house reels. I then load my MkII Reel Unit from the 70mm house reels.

If I receive a used IMAX print, it arrives on a shipping platter (or platters for a DMR print). I wind from the shipping platter to a house platter, either on the MkII or QTRU.

Once an IMAX print is assembled, it is not normally broken down to its original lab rolls. It ships on large platters having a hub of 9 inches.

The MkII platter hub is 15 inches.
The QTRU platter ring is 60 centimeters (about 23 1/2 inches).

| IP: Logged

Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 09-20-2006 07:35 PM

That's very useful - so perhaps a good compromise for any new 5-70 shipping method might be a 70mm 4-inch core. AFAIK only 3-inch 70mm cores are currently available (please correct me if I'm wrong), but it may be easy enough to fabricate 4-inch versions using their 35mm equivalents as a basis.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.