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Topic: Can a 70mm 30fps run on a platter?

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-22-2006 07:07 AM

Yeah but the Strong large rings are the same size as the Christie standard ring. If you want more precise control, use the large Christie rings (and the Christie platter of course).

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Jeff Joseph
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 05-22-2006 09:52 PM

Paul: I don't think there is a "new" print of "Oklahoma!", just the same old print from the early 80s. I asked Martin Hart (Widescreen Museum) about what you found on his site; he had been quoting somebody else, not something "factual" at all. The 65mm is not printable on this title and hasn't been for quite some time. I would be very surprised if anything newer than the early 80s existed.

Added later: Just heard from Marty Hart... yes, the print was from the 1980s, not "new".

Jeff Joseph
SabuCat Productions

[ 05-23-2006, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Jeff Joseph ]

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-23-2006 12:35 AM

early 80's... is it lpp?

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Jeff Joseph
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 05-24-2006 11:08 PM

Yes, printed in late 1982 (just in time for LPP). Actually, there were 2 70mm prints struck at that time. Later, one "good" print was cut together and the rest trashed.

There were also 2 35mm prints struck at that time: One optical sound and one 3-track mag (no surround channel).

Jeff

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 05-25-2006 12:13 AM

quote: Jeff Joseph
There were also 2 35mm prints struck at that time: One optical sound and one 3-track mag (no surround channel).

Were these 35mm prints from the Todd-AO or CinemaScope version?

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Gordon Burke
Film Handler

Posts: 15
From: San Jose, CA
Registered: Sep 2005

posted 05-30-2006 01:53 PM

quote: Jeff Joseph
Yes, printed in late 1982 (just in time for LPP). Actually, there were 2 70mm prints struck at that time. Later, one "good" print was cut together and the rest trashed.

I just saw what is probably this last print at the "California" and it is presentable with some problems.

The LPP fade is showing and it alternates with what I assume are splices between the two prints. The splices are visible in the California's aperture. There are some lost seconds during "I'm Just a Girl Who Can't Say No" and elsewhere in various dialogue scenes. There are obviously a lot of splices, but they don't affect the Mag sound or have enough lost frames to be bothersome. The first reel after the intermission is pretty nice to look at with the deep blue in the MGM fake sky behind the hoe-down. The ending when they ride off to the train station shows some pink in the middle of the frame... arc burn maybe? Emulsion and base lines are of relatively short duration.

We had two breaks which stopped the show twice in the auction scene, so now there are two more splices.

Some changeovers are abrupt as if there are a few lost ID frames.

I had just seen Larry of Arabia 24-hours before in the same seat and the mag audio was incredibly good for that show. This Oklahoma print had problems with dialogue that wasn't shouted while the musical sections were as clear as my CD. For instance, Shirley Jones is hard to hear, but Gordon McRae could be heard much better. I was surprised that the background sounds were so faint. I'm used to hearing the cows moo in the distance and the rustling tree leaves. Could this have been a format selection mistake on Packard's CP200? The various directional dialogue was present whereas it is all in the center on the DVD.

The 30fps makes a big difference in pan/tracking shots and dancers' arms strobed less across the screen. The 48-flicker rate for LOA I was familiar with, but the 60-flicker was something to behold.

As a film-nerd, I really liked getting a chance to see this film in this format.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-30-2006 02:12 PM

At the Heights' presentation of Oklahoma! some channels were selectively muted during the show due to track damage.

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Dan Lyons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 698
From: Seal Beach, CA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 05-30-2006 04:58 PM

quote: Gordon Burke
We had two breaks which stopped the show twice in the auction scene, so now there are two more splices.

I swear, every 70mm thread it seems like we get a comment about how "the film broke". Why aren't people inspecting their prints and adjusting their gate tension ?!? [Mad]

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-30-2006 05:19 PM

quote: Brad Miller
If you want more precise control, use the large Christie rings

what?? since when does size matter? [Big Grin]

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Paul Vollmers
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Sister Lakes, MI, USA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 05-30-2006 09:06 PM

I would sure like to see a fully restored or "new" Ben Hur, or Around The World In 80 Days... road show version.. both in 70mm .
Maybe some day.......

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-31-2006 02:52 AM

quote:
I had just seen Larry of Arabia 24-hours before in the same seat and the mag audio was incredibly good for that show. This Oklahoma print had problems with dialogue that wasn't shouted while the musical sections were as clear as my CD. For instance, Shirley Jones is hard to hear, but Gordon McRae could be heard much better. I was surprised that the background sounds were so faint. I'm used to hearing the cows moo in the distance and the rustling tree leaves. Could this have been a format selection mistake on Packard's CP200?

If "Oklahoma!" was run with the same audio setting as "Lawrence" then, yes, it could be a format selection mistake. The '82/'83 prints of "Oklahoma!" I've encountered are non-Dolby.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-31-2006 11:56 AM

The CP-200 can run Todd-AO format, I'm unsure if it requires extra modification, though.

I agree with Dan, these prints need more careful selection in which houses they go out to. Whoever holds these rare prints ought to tour or speak with the prospective houses to see if their projectionists are competent enough to handle these beasts. [Mad]

We use the larger Christie-like rings for 35mm on our SPECO's & yes, they do give a lot better speed control. Not to mention they wind tighter, are more convenient for removal & threading & never pop out like the thin metal ones SPECO sends. We have some of the oldest platters in town & the original factory-drilled holes were obviously set for a much smaller ring! One of our platters used to be convertible for 70mm (though it never played here) and the SPECO ring left over for 70 is not only smaller in diameter, it's basically thin plastic with quite short metal pegs for security, not what I'd wanna run any existing 70 print onto... [Eek!]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-31-2006 01:14 PM

I am talking about the bigger rings, unavailable from SPECO.

Be careful about running those old 70mm prints on an LP270 SPECO platter. Those two rollers at the top of the takeup elevator like to have their shafts get bent and as such exerts uneven tension from edge to edge. Bad news for a 70mm print. These should be replaced with angled brackets.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-31-2006 02:03 PM

Brad, ours weren't from SPECO. They're the same design as Christies, but colored blue & bearing the current pin spacing for SPECO's. They were referred to as "film-tech rings" when I started here.

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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 05-31-2006 02:48 PM

Steve, you are quite mistaken about this.

If you're talking about the blue rings you use every day, they are indeed from SPECO. That's what they sell you now when you order a standard ring. I don't know who you heard "Film-Tech Rings" from... certainly not me. The only extra holes in some of our platter decks are about three years old, drilled by me to accomodate Goldberg's Modular Platter Reels. As for the factory SPECO stuff, the 30-year-old curved metal hoops fit the same holes as the new cast rings.

The kind of ring Brad is talking about is something different entirely.

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