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Author Topic: The best 35mm projector Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-18-2006 02:53 PM                        Mark: I use the Super as my reference. New projectors are better, worse, about the same as a Super to me. It is amazing how many recent machines are soundly trounced by the old Super. Naturally, those that are the same as or worse than a super I do not like. MY Century conversions don't leak oil, are steady and pass more light than most anything else. They don't come that way, however. Louis  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 08-18-2006 04:24 PM                     quote: Christian Appelt This summer I have seen two open air screenings using Meopta 5, both with terrible registration and endless focus problems. IMHO the only reason to get a Meopta is that you have no money even for a decent 30 year old projector. Yes, also picture problems, and focus...they have curved gates...but mine Iskra NP-21 which is made in 1958 and have normal gates got better picture steadiness and focus than that! Also is it Meopta that cheap? I know it was half of price than Kinoton or Ernemann?  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-19-2006 01:22 AM                       Naturally, everything comes down to a matter of opinion and personal preference, but I feel I can say, without reservation, that the best 35mm projector ever made was the: DeVry Suitcase.  |  IP: Logged Tim Asten Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Brighton, United Kingdom Registered: Nov 2006 posted 11-10-2006 07:23 AM                     Hi Everybody,I am new to the forums.I am a projectionist in a 15 screen multiplex in West sussex,England.(Cineworld).There seems to be quite a love affair with Kinoton projectors on this site.Well we have a love/hate relationship with our 15 Kinoton FP40 machines.We have had problems with every single one of them although they may have inproved since we have had them. (They were installed 1998).Its not the mechanics-in this area they are quite good-its the electronics.As everybody that works with them will know,the turrets and aperture changers have mini computers with numerous infra-red sensors.they need constant ajustment for them to work properly.In some cases we've had to disconnect the aperture changers completely and leave them in scope position and mask of the ports with card.As i said though,mechanically they are good.They are easy to lace,gentle on the film,and put out a steady image.however i do take issue with the sound head design which i think is poor.In my opinion the sound drum is way to small which needs a pressure roller with two tiny rubber'o'rings to push the film against the drum.the pressure of this roller is critical because to much and the film rides up the roller,even a dodgy join can make it do this.Not enough pressure causes the sound to wow and flutter badly.Only yesterday we had to cancel a show due to this problem.we stipped down the pressure roller assembly and rebuilt it.It turned out that the spring loaded shaft needed a drop of oil on it.It seems ok now.We are also now having issues with the inverter drive which is making the machine stop in the middle of a film for no reason.Our techs are hopefully coming down soon to try and sort out these problems..So you can see the newer Kinoton machines are not exactly'nearly maintenance free'.When i was training a few years ago I worked on 70 mm VIC 8's which i thought were great.they were simple and reliable,with a good sound head design with a large sound drum where the film sits in channel-rock solid.Anyway sorry to waffle on.I would love to hear your comments.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-10-2006 07:50 AM                     The Vic 8 as well as all of the other Vics are well noted for their out-of-round drums and shafts...I'm sure playing a 1KHz tone on them is where Dolby got the idea of the Dolby tone warble! As to the Kinotons....I can't speak to the turrets as I don't generally sell or use them and if we do, they were manual ones and would not exhibit the problems you describe (and I have heard similar reports from others). You are very much mistaken on their soundheads though...they are probably the best out there right now. The pressure on the pinch roller is not as critical as you make it out...there are other factors at play that probably have not been addressed. First off, there is a stop on the pinch roler arm...this should prevent the pinch roller from compressing the o-ring excessively. A common problem I've found is the bearings need to be cleaned/lubricated...Kinoton uses open bearings for some odd reason. Another but related issue is the collar on the sound drum shaft is applying excessive pressure to the bearings. Prop the pinch roller off the drum, remove the drum flywheel and then spin the drum shaft. It should turn free and not feel like it is binding anywhere. If it does have a hint of binding, loosen the coller and see if that frees it up...if it does then find the point where there is no binding on the shaft but it has no lateral play either...reassemble and all will work phenominally well. As for the inverters...I have not had any issues but they can certainly fail like all electronics. While Kinotons are not maintainence free...they are the closest thing to it at the moment (auto turrets aside).  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 11-10-2006 09:56 AM                     On the Vic's with "fixed channel" design, warble is present if end bells are switched between machines, mating surfaces not clean, screws not seated, faulty "brute force" pressure roller all contribute.....I have installed and serviced more than my share  |  IP: Logged Tim Asten Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Brighton, United Kingdom Registered: Nov 2006 posted 11-10-2006 11:19 AM                     In the cinema where I first received training,we had three screens with twin 35/70mm Vic 8's in each,except in one screen were we had twin Vic 4's.I believe it was one of the first cinemas in the UK to have platters(philips,now Kinoton of course)but the Vics as far as I can remember ran without fault apart from minor oil leaks here and there.We had CP50 processors in two screens and only mono in the screen with the Vic 4's.I remember the Chief setting dolby levels but i dont remember any warbling or any sound issues at all.I remember one time when the outer bell on the drum got knocked on one machine and was miss-aligned,but we ran the other machine till a tech came and re-aligned it.Mind you this was in the eighties where there were only ever 3 shows a day and they did'nt take the hammering the machines in modern multiplex's do.Also I was only paid as an usher at the time and had to train in my spare time,so I was'nt in the booth all the time and there may have been more problems that I was'nt aware off.The best thing that I remember from that cinema was being shown how to run 70mm on change overs.We used to have friday night late shows where we ran films like Pink Floyd-The Wall,Poltergeist,Brainstorm(remember that?).It's something newer projectionists will probably never experience.The multiplex I now work at is just not the same .  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-10-2006 03:19 PM                     Point of view. Favourite all time projector Cinemeccanica V5, I grew up with these babies and maybe that is why I am so attached to them. I know every inside out on them. Then comes Kinoton projectors. I have only experienced the FP30E version and it has great results. The most amazing thing on these projectors is the light output they give even in 1600W bulbs. The most common undying projector is the V4 which was one of the most reliable projector of all time and we have several in Cyprus giving great shows in festivals, summer open air cinemas, and even town cinemas. I would love to see a new version of the V4 to match the new A series of the Kinoton range. Kinotons are by far the best, as long as they work! Cinemeccanicas though will never ever let you down unless you are a real idiot and don't keep the minor maintenance schedule you are supposed to. The main "fight" in Europe is between the V5s and the Kinotons FP30E or D projectors. Its a matter of choice really. Both are EXCELLENT choices so it's up to you. I personally wouldn't though go changing the V5 projectors with new V5s or Kinoton. Juct change the main parts to refurbish them (shutter box & intermittent block), perhaps a new sound bell and new sprockets and you don't need anything else. That is my personal opinion. Best Regards Demetris  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-11-2006 02:21 PM                     quote: Ken McFall Ok I'll vote... 1st Cinemeccanica Vic 4, 5, 8 & 9 Joint 2nd BTH with rotary stabalised sound head... I did my training on the BTH model KB projector, so it was my favourite for sometime. For an open machine they ran very quietly, film absolutely purred through, as the fibre front gate runners were always left soaked in oil overnight. Super Simplex and Philips (Kinoton) FP20 also DP70, later became my favourite projectors. Most worked on projector was the ever reliable workhorse Westar 2001 single and double shutter with water cooled gate. Present relief projection: Century with turrets and Christie AW3 platters.  |  IP: Logged Jarrad Salmon Film Handler Posts: 25 From: Baulkham Hills, NSW, Australia Registered: May 2006 posted 11-17-2006 05:30 PM                     Hi Gunnar, I have worked on the Cinemeccanica Vic5's and to be honest with you I think they are very reliable. Very easy to maintain and repair if needed. I have also worked on the Kinoton FP30D and also the electronic intermittent model(I think it is the FP30E), and find these projectors fantastic also. However in your post you mentioned that most cinemas near you have Cinemeccanica projectors. Maybe it is my being an Australian and therefore geographically distant from supply... but I'd stay with the Cinemeccanica for the extra availability of parts and qualified operators. There is nothing wrong with a Cinemeccanica.  |  IP: Logged Gilles Elbhar Film Handler Posts: 21 From: pavillons sous bois / France Registered: Mar 2006 posted 12-19-2006 01:20 PM                        I have work with V4, V5, V8, V9, DP70, DP75, FP20, FP30, FP30E, FP30D,... Old or new; I never find one projector was better another. Depanding from the maintenance !!!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-19-2006 06:24 PM                     I can agree totally with above on the Cinemeccanica's since I've worked with V5's and V8r's - esp the V8r's in which I totally enjoy working with. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 12-19-2006 07:31 PM                     Monte, you need a kitty litter box for that oil slick under that machine  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-19-2006 10:14 PM                     Yea, we did that along with sealing up a lot of those oily 'runny noses' from this one machine - this pic was taken over 15yrs ago with I started here. Since then, in 2001, these units were pulled out of this theatre and were sold off when the theatre was closed down. But, sure did enjoy running these V8r (V-18) units.  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 12-20-2006 01:20 AM                     The cinema I work in has 2 x vic 18's (its a twin) complete with the oil on the floor  |  IP: Logged

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