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Author Topic: Running with the lamphouse open Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-21-2007 03:50 PM                     There are a couple major distinctions between your's and his. In your's the side and back are wide open, ready to let glass fly everywhere. In his, he doesn't do anything with the side like your's and the back is not open either. He mounted a fan to the back panel. So the only part that's kind of open is the small vent for the fan. So his idea is far safer. Safer in the sense that people/equipment within 20 feet won't have shrapnel thrown into them in the case of the bulb breaking.  |  IP: Logged Alex Grueneberg Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Aug 2004 posted 05-21-2007 03:56 PM                        I had to do this once with a 4.5k. Honestly, although your concern is justified I'd leave the panels closed. Make your case known that the projector is very hot to the chain or management but if they want to continue to run the unit its there game. On Christie's some of the other operators here would take off the back panel (auto focus adjustments) and plop a fan right there however that still runs the risks of glass shooting out if the bulb decided its had enough. Small note: We picked up a small yet powerful blower fan from Grainger that fits perfectly on the top vent snood of our SLC's for exactly this issue. True it does just blow the exhaust into the booth but it keeps the unit cool, and a handy thing to have around. Good luck.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-21-2007 04:17 PM                        Chris, I was referring entirely to the technical aspect. I realize that having the doors open presents a risk if a bulb explodes. But if the bulb is operating at proper temperature and the hot air is sufficiently removed from the environment in such a way that there is no greater risk of the bulb spontaneously exploding in my rigged setup than there is in normal operation, then I hardly have to worry about what happens if the bulb explodes. Why would it? It only has ~250 hours on it and is being run at proper current levels. Besides, the operator only needs to be anywhere near the machine long enough to push the START button. Any adjustments to the presentation can be made from the non-op side. That particular machine is at the end of the booth and faces a wall. Again, please don't misunderstand me. I do not think safety is pointless. But from where I'm coming from, in my opinion, it doesn't present a significant risk. I am merely disappointed that the other operators don't see it that way. It was determined that this is not a decision that should be made for them, however, and we've decided to go ahead and not run the machine at all. For my own education, I would be interested in learning more about the assertion made earlier that the panels and position of the stack exhaust are essential to proper airflow and cooling. In other words, I would like to learn how my setup is inferior (aside from the safety concerns) to the normal operation of the projector and exhaust system.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-21-2007 04:50 PM                        The air around the bulb is taken care of by the blower attached to the bulb mount. As long as air can get out the top of the box, the bulb should be more or less OK. Reducing the current and allowing the very hottest air out (by any method) should allow reliable operation. Our safety concerns stem from the fact that you (probably) don't have the authority to put anyone (including yourself) in harm's way. It is almost certainly not your option from a corporate viewpoint. I would most certainly not let any employee of mine, regardless of qualification do some things that I would do myself. Also, I never thought this situation was to be permanent! Louis  |  IP: Logged Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-21-2007 05:15 PM                        And that is why this was not a unilateral decision. I would not have done it if I 1) did not think the risk was minimal and 2) did not have permission to do so. I was just wondering what others' experiences were in this area. I am appreciating the feedback with suggestions of other ways to work around this type of problem. After the issue is fully resolved, we will most definitely look into constructing a suitable backup option.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2007 05:23 PM                        I've been told by a few technicians that lamps up to 2kw can be safely operated without roof exhaust on a temporary basis. I've had to do this a few times and haven't seen any real issues with doing so. I've seen lots of booths without sail switches/exhaust failsafes (units either missing entirely or bypassed). Is this really that uncommon? It doesn't seem like a real problem as long as the operator is attentive enough to check to make sure that the roof exhaust blower actually is turned on and working. Oh, and I would never run a xenon lamp with the covers removed. I've seen what a 2kw bulb will do to a fully enclosed lamphouse when it blows up while in operation. I'd hate to see what a 4kw bulb would do, especially with a fan waiting to propel the bits into the booth.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 05-21-2007 06:26 PM                     Scott, temporary????? A lot of independents I service don't have any exhaust at all. It doesn't seem to matter what I tell them. They don't want to have it installed. Makes it nice and toasty on those cold winter nights.....  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-21-2007 06:26 PM                    If I worked there, I would simply refuse to run the projector. The potential danger of the lamp exploding is to severe to be anywhere near that projector when it is running. The company would lose $$ until they got someone in there to fix that unit because I would simply refuse to put myself, or anyone else, at risk to simply run the projector as is. If Shrek is in that house, switch it with another print that doesn't play, but either way, that projector simply would not run...I don't think they could even fire you for refusing to run it either. It's simply a stupid gamble.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 05-21-2007 06:28 PM                     Easier said than done Frank. They will just get someone else to run it if they had to. A lot of these employers don't care. It's all about the money.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2007 06:35 PM                        quote: Scott Norwood I've been told by a few technicians that lamps up to 2kw can be safely operated without roof exhaust on a temporary basis. Our Christie 2kw lamp actually ran that way for several years. When it was installed, we had a small fan above the booth ceiling but no roof fan that I knew of. The "technician" (who's now dead) apparently thought the roof fan was not necessary and that the cooling from the lamphouse fan and the attic fan was good enough. We never had bulb problems amazingly. John Eikhof was the first person to question the lack of a roof fan and he actually climbed up there and determined that we DID have a roof fan but it just wasn't hooked up! So we ran a wire to the booth, plugged that fan in and now we're coolin' baby.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 05-21-2007 06:42 PM                     That reminds me......An Indian theater close to where I live that I serviced ran 2 super 80 lamphouses I think. They were definitely 4000 watt bulbs though. Neither one had a booth exhaust. They were in the original booth. They were run all summer long with no problems. Obviously I'm not saying that this is good to do. I just don't think you're in immediate danger by doing this. BTW, these were run with all the covers in place.  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-21-2007 06:50 PM                     Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most lamphouse manufacturers have specs for CFM that the exhaust system should pull for proper cooling purposes? That being said, why play games? If the bulb blows, wouldn't that void the bulb warranty? Then of course you have reflector damage and other possible damage as well. When my roof exhaust goes, end of show until the H_Vac guy comes in to do the necesary repairs. Just my two cents.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 05-21-2007 07:03 PM                     John you're right. A lot of theaters don't see it that way though. They think it costs too much to put in a proper exhaust. They don't understand that in the long run they will save money on bulbs and other booth equipment that will fail sooner than they should. Like I said though, I have seen very few, if any, lamps explode because of no exhaust. I have seen them fail early but not explode. Again, this is only with the independents that I service and I'm not saying that it's with every one of them...just the majority of them.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2007 07:04 PM                     What I have in all locations is a squirel cage blower mounted in a metal box that can sit on top of the lamphouse powered by a line cord that will create sufficient suction to vent the stack into the room with out any covers removed  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-21-2007 11:33 PM                    quote: Frank Dubrois It's simply a stupid gamble. Yeah, like I said..........  |  IP: Logged

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