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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Running with the lamphouse open (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Running with the lamphouse open
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 05-21-2007 11:46 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Richard May
It's all about the money.

(seems like a lot of small time, two bit wannabe big shot theatre owners rather play the number$$$ game than actually doing the business right..)

Like one single screen cinema I know of that kept all of their spare bulbs like a pak rat-12 yr plus of used bulbs, and what really got me was that there were a few CXL-30 bulbs in this spare bunch of bulbs with makeshift cathode connections attached..and this cinema has a Super80 lamphouse which uses the CXL-30R bulb [Eek!] talk about cheap and stupid in someone digging up used HTP bulbs to burn in this STRONG lamphouse...( I don't know how they managed to burn these wrong bulbs in that lamphouse, but was told that it was somehow done by their so-called technician -which I really don't want to know how it was connected..)

I grabbed all of these spares and got them out of their misery so no-one whould have a blink of a chance doing any makeshift installs again.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 05-22-2007 03:09 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Christopher Meredith
Again, please don't misunderstand me. I do not think safety is pointless. But from where I'm coming from, in my opinion, it doesn't present a significant risk. I am merely disappointed that the other operators don't see it that way. It was determined that this is not a decision that should be made for them, however, and we've decided to go ahead and not run the machine at all.
The problem is with the definition of "significant risk." You say the risk is insignificant because it's unlikely that the bulb will blow. But if something bad did happen, there would be SIGNIFICANT damage (both to people and the equipment nearby).

But as was mentioned, just detaching the blower stack from the unit will probably let quite a bit of the hot air out. Anyone knows that hot air rises. So some of it will tend to shoot up simply from convection. Plus, inside the lamphouse the air pressure will be much higher than outside which will cause the air to tend to go out any opening.

You should definitely try that before doing anything more involved, especially if your lamphouse sucks in cool air from a lower section than where the hot air will be let out.

Like if you had some way of measuring the temp of a bulb, light a similarly lamp (same model lamphouse and same wattage) and see what it runs at. Then test the temp of the lamp that's got the stack pulled off. If it stays in a similar temp, you'll be ok. And it'll be safe/cheap.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 05-22-2007 05:08 AM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Christopher Meredith
we've decided to go ahead and not run the machine at all.

Good choice. Running carbon arcs, I once refused to run a show because of a failed exhaust. Management didn't like it but the exhaust was fixed the next morning.

I for one would NEVER compromise safety.

If nothing bad were to happen you'd get an "atta boy". But it only takes one "aw sh*t" to wipe out 1000 "atta boys".

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Anslem Rayburn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 476
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-22-2007 05:31 AM      Profile for Anslem Rayburn   Email Anslem Rayburn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've run 2K bulbs for 2 days without exhaust fans. We don't open the lamphouse, so our only risk is shock (as in "Holy shit, what was that?!?!?") and lamphouse damage. We've only done it when the local shop is closed (aka the weekend), and it's only happened twice. I would NEVER run a machine that might harm anyone. Disgruntled customers are better than scarred or dead staff. We try to keep spare motors and belts on hand, but stuff happens. I have no problem risking the lives of bulbs and lamphouses for the sake of good PR. Human life is a different beast.

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Michael Moore
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Dover, DE / USA
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 05-22-2007 09:08 AM      Profile for Michael Moore   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know on this topic; something i have worried about is' my projector has its blower mounted on the top of the lamp house. We have never vented it to the outside because we really have no way to do it at this time. So the blower exhausts right in the room. What I'm afraid of is the bulb exploding and the fan pushing all the glass from the reflector and bulb into the booth. Should I be concerned with this?

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 05-22-2007 09:22 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I suppose a little bit could find its way up the stack... certainly not all of it. It's doubtful that a stack blower would pull enough to yank any glass that hadn't been directly shot at it.

Still, you could probably get some hardware cloth (wire mesh) and attach it to the blower. Don't get it too fine though... you don't want to decrease the blower cfm.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-22-2007 11:01 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the lamp explodes, it could cost you a couple-three thousand dollars to repair the damage, whether the covers are on or whether the blowers are all working or not.

If a lamp explodes and the schrapnel hits a person, he or she will, AT MINIMUM, need to go the emergency room for stitches. If glass hits them in the face or if a large chunk of the lamp hits them in a vital area, they will end up being admitted to the hospital if not maimed or killed.

Now, let's assume that the lamp has the same chances of exploding whether the covers are all closed or not. Even if it's only a 0.001% chance, why would you want to risk hurting somebody?

It's just really simple to keep the covers on and cover your ass in the mean time.

What about the "numbers game"? How does management think it's saving money? If the lamp explodes, it will COST them LOTS more money than taking this chance saves them.

If that lamp goes, the projector will be out of commission until it is repaired. You will lose no less than one or two shows. Refunding a house full of customers on a Saturday night is going to cost you plenty! If the explosion puts you out of commission for a day or more, you will lost THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars! FAR more than the few bucks you saved by not paying for the repairs you need in the first place.

I understand the drive to keep the projector on-screen. It's a matter of pride and concern for your craft. "The show must go on!"

Virtually every one of us agrees that you could do those things to save a show. But, virtually every one of us ALSO agrees they this should never be done for anything other than a Band-Aid measure to get you through until the repair man can come.

The law of large numbers is working against you. You might not have a catastrophe THIS time but the consequences of a catastrophe are often so great that you can't afford to have even ONE.

Don't take chances. Don't roll the dice.

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Christopher Meredith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 126
From: Jackson, MS, USA
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted 05-22-2007 11:01 AM      Profile for Christopher Meredith   Author's Homepage   Email Christopher Meredith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: "Chris Slycord"
But as was mentioned, just detaching the blower stack from the unit will probably let quite a bit of the hot air out. Anyone knows that hot air rises. So some of it will tend to shoot up simply from convection. Plus, inside the lamphouse the air pressure will be much higher than outside which will cause the air to tend to go out any opening.

You should definitely try that before doing anything more involved, especially if your lamphouse sucks in cool air from a lower section than where the hot air will be let out.

I think it goes without saying that if I had it to do over again, I would do that instead. I posted here precisely for this kind of feedback. So thanks!

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: California, U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 05-22-2007 12:11 PM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Christopher Meredith
But if the bulb is operating at proper temperature and the hot air is sufficiently removed from the environment in such a way that there is no greater risk of the bulb spontaneously exploding in my rigged setup than there is in normal operation, then I hardly have to worry about what happens if the bulb explodes. Why would it? It only has ~250 hours on it and is being run at proper current levels.
Bulbs can fail sitting on the shelf (LTI anyone?). You should never assume that any one bulb will last any amount of time.
This is the reason for safety gear even with new lamps.
The more stress (heat) it gets the faster it'll fail and all that heat does nothing good for the seals.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 05-22-2007 12:40 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess I'm just so used to theaters running with no booth exhaust or any kind of fan on top of the lamphouse to think it's a serious issue. These theaters all use 1600,2000,3000, and 4000 watt bulbs. I have never heard of any exploding. Obviously they ALL should have exhaust but I'm never worried working around them while they are on. They all do have the covers on though so nothing is going to come out if something did happen. A lot of these people just don't understand that the exhaust is needed. Also, if they have never had a problem without it, they arent going to spend the money to do it. Again, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that it's done A LOT.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 05-22-2007 01:27 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dominic Espinosa
Bulbs can fail sitting on the shelf (LTI anyone?)....
and speaking of them damned things, when a LTI blows in the carrier, those three velcro straps doesn't hold the case together worth poop, plus the cheap plastic that is used in making those carriers shatters just as bad as the bulb does.

This is all due to the increased pressure (cold) that is installed in those bulbs...

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-22-2007 01:29 PM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will just say this that the booth should have at least one inline duct fan to use in this type of situation. You can have the exhaust blow into the booth or let it go into the ceiling if you have a drop down ceiling.

It has saved me a couple of times when the roof exhaust went down and it saves your show schedule.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 05-22-2007 10:08 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah... I think Chris gets the point. Asking for opinions here is like drinking from a fire hose.

I'm glad you took the feedback the way you did, Chris... even if the prevailing suggestions weren't your first choice.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-22-2007 11:57 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jack Ondracek
Asking for opinions here is like drinking from a fire hose.
That's the funniest thing I've read all week. [thumbsup]

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-26-2007 10:00 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Venting directly into the projection room does carry a risk of exposure to ozone. Although most modern lamps are "ozone free" during operation, ozone can still be generated by the high voltage ignition. If you smell ozone, don't run the lamp until you get proper venting.

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