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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Obsolete Dolby sound formats. (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Obsolete Dolby sound formats. Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-01-2007 10:20 PM                     Best little whore house in texas had a dolby a mag release in canada  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 07-02-2007 02:13 AM                        Early in the SR introduction we had prints that were marked SR but sounded RS, so we had to switch back to A after a listening test.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-02-2007 03:55 AM                        Steve, I may have just been improbably unlucky because I am not talking about my installation, although I am able to read a low level of that 12k tone right at the head, expecially on the left? channel (one closest to the surround channel track). And granted, I don't have those exquisite and exquisitely expensive Teccon heads, just lowly Ampex heads, but there is no doubt that the bleed was coming right from the head cluster itself, electrically induced across the windings perhaps. And my understanding was that it is precisely because of the crosstalk between head windings that there was a need to silense the surround channel lest dialogue be heard in that channel. But setting aside my system, as I said, I went to all the stereo films that played in the first run houses in NYC when I was a kid, and because I read all there was to read about the new CinemaScope system worked and had a projectionist friend who explain it all to the eager sponge that I was, I was very aware of that tone and could hear it, not only in one theatre, but in a variety of theatres, most of them the "flagship" theatres of the day which presumably had the best high end systems at that time. And believe me, I could hear that tone preceding each surround effect. Perhaps it was because I was still in my late teens and could hear allot better than I can now, but there was no doubt that the maddening tone was present. And back then the amps and especially the speakers were probably rolling off the top end pretty fiercely, still I could hear it. Sometimes you had to turn your head from side to side a bit because it was very directional, but it was there, even though some of my friends who were hi-frequency deaf from all the rock concerts said they didn't hear it. Anyway, my point being, it was a dumb system from the get-go. Why didn't they use a low frequence trigger like Perspectasound -- that would have done the trick and not have been nearly as distinct a sound as 12khz should there be any bleed.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-02-2007 06:09 AM                     It is the Right channel that is closest (the track configuration is Left, Center, Surround, Right. I have worked with the Ampex heads, Norton, Teccon and have never had bleed through at the head itself. As to hearing the tone...you should still have no trouble picking it off...it is way too low a frequency to not hear! You would have heard it not from the Right channel but the surrounds though....it preceeded the track actually playing to ensure the channel was on before any information was on it. I agree that a LF tone would be much less annoying! Plus the speakers of the day were not good in the LF so a suitable high-pass filter would have protected them. The whole 12KHz tone thing was a very bad solution to a problem Steve  |  IP: Logged Phillip Grace Expert Film Handler Posts: 164 From: ACMI. Melbourne. Australia. Registered: Mar 2004 posted 07-02-2007 06:46 AM                     I was working at the "Bercy" in Melbourne when "Best Little Whorehouse" was screened there. The print was 3 track magnetic, LCR, no surround track - not even the stripe was present. There was no optical track on the print, although the print was made to mag-optical dimensions. Perforations were fox-holes, and any splicing was done with cement by hand. The magnetic sounded wonderful, particularly compared with the mono optical print it replaced.  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 07-02-2007 07:04 AM                        Dolby Stereo optical without surround Apocalypse Now (1979) The Black Stallion (1979) Maniac (1980) Buddy Goes West (1982)  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-02-2007 08:14 AM                     I seem to recall playing a 35mm print of South Pacific in 3-track 35mm magnetic (also no surround stripe). It did have an optical track though. We played it at the K-B Cinema in Washington, DC. The way I remember it was that I was very insistant that our 70mm theatres had either 10-track heads on site or heads with good 4-track sections to ensure when those theatres played festivals that they were ready for just about anything that would come in. When the call came in that South Pacific was 35mm magnetic on a "Musical Festival" I grinned and said..."no problem." Mind you, just because the heads were on site didn't mean that they were installed. We didn't get 10-track Teccon heads but saved older 10-track heads that had good 4-track sections just for such occassions. By the mid 1980s, 35mm magnetic films were becoming VERY rare indeed. It is too bad, because with Dolby NR...it really gave 35mm much of the 70mm sound and a substantially less cost. I remember figuring out a system to use the 4-magnetic track plus the optical track for bass enhancement. Steve  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-02-2007 09:22 AM                     I used to send the sum of LCR to a Kintek aka DBX sub Bass box to give 4 track some omph I never had interchannel crosstalk on striped prints and usually only on some of the lower grade full coat stuff The reel of South Pacific I have has 4 tracks on it  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 07-02-2007 10:49 AM                       I had forgotten about Best Little Whorehouse. Universal back then had a real political problem with Dolby so avoided issuing in 04 when possible. Most notable on the print I saw was the large blue vein visible on Dolly Parton's chest. She needed major nourishment to the area. As to other kinds of bleeding, 35mm heads of the time had pretty serious crosstalk problems due to lack of inter-head shielding.  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-02-2007 10:59 AM                     "Jesus Christ Superstar" was 3 track magoptical with large perfs. Bob  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-02-2007 01:11 PM                        Boy, you guys take me back. I did several premieres (Idolmaker) using 35mm 4 track mag with mono sounded on all 4 channels. Theatres had JJ's and AAII's so 4 track was no problem. This avoided interlock and was easy for the studios to do since I was given my choice of print stock, etc. The operators had never done picture/track and lived in fear of it. The rental equipment supplied from the west coast was BAD. I always considered 35mm mag to be poor man's 70mm. Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-02-2007 02:53 PM                     Conversely, I always considered SVA to be a poor man's 35mm magnetic. When 35mm mag fell way into disuse, there was Dolby NR and Teccon heads as well as VKF sprockets...all of which negated most of the complaints of 35mm magnetic from an exhibitor standpoint (it still cost the distributor more to stripe and sound the print). But with Dolby-A and Teccon heads, you had a reasonably good sounding roubust format that was far superior to SVA. Steve  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 07-02-2007 03:04 PM                     Was a surround delay ever introduced for 4 track? A standard Dolby processor and MPU won't do it, since the delay's on the CAT 150, which is not in use with mag formats.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 07-02-2007 05:43 PM                       We finally got around to Steve's preference for 35mm Mag. It was very good in its day. As to delay on the mag. surround track; I believe it was a built in delay determined by a SMPTE spec. A variable delay was a basic requirment of Dolby SVA to conceal the crosstalk. On 35 and 70 Mag it was an over-all set delay at the studio in recognition of the fact the suurounds were much closer to the audience than the main channels in the big houses back in the day when the average movie house was 700 seats and up.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-02-2007 06:22 PM                     I believe DTS still encodes with the same delay as the old mag spec somehow 1.5 frames sticks in the back of my mind Also I never experienced any interchannel crosstalk with Norton/ Brush or Lipps heads nor with Teccon  |  IP: Logged

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