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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Christie AW3R Timing (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Christie AW3R Timing
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 10-13-2007 06:14 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, a few days before opening the platters were all timed and setup to very exacting standards. Within 2 weeks they were noticeably slower and there was only 3 of us working that booth the first two weeks and I am 100% certain that the doors weren't even opened to adjust the cards.

Re-timing them and another month down the road again they were running too slow. They keep getting slower and slower and slower. This is a fact. If you don't believe me, haul your butt down here for a few weeks and I will demo for you personally.

On the flipside, I've ran the older visible led platters for periods of a few years without ANY noticeable drift.

(Joe, Dwayne and I first played with the new IR "upgrade" in 2000 when they first came out with it. We all HATED it. The platters simply did not operate anywhere near as smoothly, although we didn't leave them in long enough to find out about the serious dropoff of level over time. Although I haven't spoken to Joe or Dwayne about that in years, I'll bet they very specifically remember #15 at the Chinese slinging prints for that week or so.)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-13-2007 06:53 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The IR kits I have definately don't go back to 2000. Apparently what I have is different. Lisa did mention that we had ordered the first "kits" to be pput together. Will check and let you know when I see you next week. Christie has had other motor cards too... the worst ones were the cards that were 555 based... the 555 is not an inherently stable IC. They replaced all of those.

What would have been interesting to note is the reading at the motor card contacts to see if the 70K point is what is actually drifting...

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 10-13-2007 11:25 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We had some of visible LED modules in stock...2 out of 3 would not meet spec when installed...Christie refused to warranty them even though they were never sold to a customer (never had the heat-shrink removed from the CDS until we tried them). To them, if a dealer has them for over 90-days on parts, too bad. Not exactly standing by their product. That makes it tough to support them by stocking spare parts since we have all the liability on the stuff.

Conversely, I just installed two Kinoton ST200Es....worked correctly right out of the crate, no timing required, perfect speeds.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-13-2007 11:59 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Call me crazy, but I've always had good luck with the timing procedure described in the AW3 manual, with a little bit of adjustment by feel. I've never even seen a thrown print and have had exactly one brainwrap, ever, which was my own fault (a botched trailer change). I'm sure that Brad's method works well, but I've not felt the need to try a new method.

Am I the only one who actually follows the Christie procedure for timing these platters?

(I have only worked with AW3s from 1979, the early 1990s, and 1998, and haven't seen the latest generation.)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 10-14-2007 01:50 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, by "exacting standards" I meant that they were all within 1/4 RPM of each other. The new IR system only lets you adjust the speed and nothing else, so you are stuck with however it runs.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 10-14-2007 02:10 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LOL that's funny Mark ... they'd have to pay me at least $20 bucks an hour to be one of their hi-tech burger flippers due to the cost of living in Weber/Davis/SLC and Utah counties..

(Gee, I'd have to be converted to the "McJob" world to do that. That'd be sorta tough to get adjusted into that routine..)

..but at least, they're be no gameplaying, babysitting, no family favortisms and including honest incentives and bonuses to be made instead of the old "it's not what you know, but who you know" sort of nonsense.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-14-2007 09:10 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Monte...

Oh come on... you already have a McJob,why would you want to work at one down here? They could pay you $9.00 hr. and you could work at the one in Nampa and not have to move. That would sure beat working for your boss! If you want the $15.00 per hour one you'd need to work at the one in West Yellowstone or Rock Springs...

Mark

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Larry Bowen
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Tooele, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2006

- posted 10-15-2007 02:37 PM      Profile for Larry Bowen   Email Larry Bowen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunetly the infection sometimes starts at the top. See Mark's comment about Westates. And I could go on and on and on about what they do too. I'm sure there are more examples where the infection continues to spread - even into the [respectable chains] (Name withheld to protect the moronic).
[puke]

I also think it's sad to see that those who have so much experience in the industry are being sucked into this infection that is spreading when people like Monte and Mark can do so much better than just have a "McJob" to where even McD's pays better. And you wonder why they're refered to as "Booth Clowns".

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-15-2007 03:09 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry,

I hardly consider my job a "McJob". My job is as varied as it gets and I get to utilize all my knowledge gained over the last 52 years of my life... I am also very well compensated... as well or better than most techs working in this buisness.

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 10-15-2007 08:54 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(...no argument on that statement from me on Mark's qualifications....)

My job really isn't that bad where I don't consider it in the "McJob" catagory. But, there are those occasional days where it has its moments, but who doesn't have those days anywho?

But, it's a far cry from what it was 4 yrs ago when it really felt like a "McJob" for sure..and wished that I'd stayed put with my previous employer instead of getting "rabbit" and jumped the ship when the ship really wasn't sinking.

Guess, one can say that my boss is finally realizing that I rather important to his operation, for I do quite the bit to keep the operation running smooth.

-Monte

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-16-2007 12:28 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Guess, one can say that my boss is finally realizing that I rather important to his operation, for I do quite the bit to keep the operation running smooth.
Its about time! If only he noticed that in some of the other "long time" employees there they might take him a bit more seriously.

Mark

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Thomas Dieter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 234
From: Yakima, WA
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted 10-17-2007 12:38 AM      Profile for Thomas Dieter   Email Thomas Dieter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, I tried resolving the problem again tonight, and it seems to have stayed where it was after swapping out another LED card from another platter that isn't having this symptom. The pot just didn't like to sit around 0.45Ω. It would jump from 0.48Ω to 0.42Ω. I would assume it's safe to say I have a troublesome LED or filter disk. I would attempt to see if it's the filter disc tonight if there wasn't a print sitting on the deck, and someone else was here to help me raise that deck, so this will have to wait for Thursday night. Thanks to everyone's help.

quote: Ken Lackner
I always use the 70@70 rule: With the payout arme at 70 degrees, resistance across pins 12 and 14 should be set to 70k-ohms.
How does this setting work? Pins 12 and 14, are those the first 2 pin connections starting from the left if you were looking at the platter from the takeup side? How many rotations at 70 do you set the platter at, and what's your low setting?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 10-17-2007 02:23 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Thomas Dieter
How does this setting work? Pins 12 and 14, are those the first 2 pin connections starting from the left if you were looking at the platter from the takeup side? How many rotations at 70 do you set the platter at, and what's your low setting?
In doing platter timings for the AW3(R) units, there are two settings that much be entailed: 1) - the mechanical settings and 2)-the electronic settings.

AW3R Manual

The mechanical setting is to have the filter wheel aligned with the photocell (and this is where a lot of mistimings come from if this procedure isn't followed) and how you align the filter wheel with the fotocell is to have the notch on the filter wheel aligned with the edge of the sensor photocell.

How the mechanical alignment is done is with a 3/32" long arm allen (or screwdriver) and with the end coverplate off, there is an allen adjustment screw on the end of the return arm actuator. By turning the allen adjusts the filter wheel to the photocell on the sensor.

The electronic settings are with the adjustments on the card(s) after the mechanical settings are completed..

With power off, with the control card door at the horizontal. you pull the motor card out of the slot, put the DigVOM leads into the farthest two holes (the first two holes in the slot going left to right). Turn on the platter and let the system stabilize for a minute. Then, with brain in socket, move the arm and have the notch in the arm to the 70 degree mark on the brain plate. Then you adjust the trimpot to the 70K ohm reading for proper LED brightness adjustment.

Motor speed settings is a completely different animal than from the above LED settings. This procedure is done (recommended) using a "platter tach" where at the 20 degree mark the platter should just barely creep (like 1 to 3RPM's), and at the 70 degree mark be 20RPM. The LOW pot is for that 20 degree setting and the HIGH put is for the 70 degree setting.

Some disregard that 70 degree setting and just open the arm all the way and as long as the RPM is over 25+RPM's, they call it good there.

Good luck, Thomas.. - Monte

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-18-2007 06:16 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Some disregard that 70 degree setting and just open the arm all the way and as long as the RPM is over 25+RPM's, they call it good there.
Thats basically the new procedure when you retrofit the new sensors in place. All thats left to set is the high/low speed adjust.

Mark

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Thomas Dieter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 234
From: Yakima, WA
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted 12-07-2007 01:26 AM      Profile for Thomas Dieter   Email Thomas Dieter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's something that I've not come across yet, and I think might have caught something early. I have 2 LED Trim Pots that are walking up and down in their ohms. Basicly, what I'm trying to say is when I set their intensity at 0.45Ω, one walks it way up to 0.50Ω and the other down to 0.40Ω and back over a period of about a minute. It never completely sits at a setting. This is the first time for this that I've seen.

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