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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Rake Scratch
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 11-26-2007 09:02 PM
Nah....when a film path does that, that's definitely a bad case of not paying attention when someone misses that dbl roller assembly on top when on rewinding to the top platter when lacing the platter... and the absense of keeper rollers can't be blamed to defend the stupidity of the operator.
You got to give these STRONG units a rightful chance to exist in this cinema worlds we're in: Simple to operate, to maintain and if you treat them right, and they're really not that all bad of a platter.
There is no motor or trim cards, DC paks,s et.al. that one has to worry on replacing, just go buy a 2M262 motor to mod it for a platter motor, 1R236 brushes for your existing motors, 6X284 microswitches for the brains (all numbers from Grainger), and ask Mark G. for bearing replacement help and you're really set to go.
(Chad,was there any signs of wear on that roller arm where the film was dragging across?)
-Monte
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Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 11-26-2007 10:50 PM
You just can't knock Strong/Potts platters out of hand like that.
I agree, they are a cheap product and, as such, they just won't have the same degree of polish that other products will. But you've got to agree that Speco, Christie and other brands have their quirks too.
Specos can be prone to brain wraps if you aren't careful. Christie's can scratch film if you don't watch out for the aforementioned problem. EVERY platter can scratch film if you don't watch out.
Like I said above, it is incumbent on the operator to check, recheck and TRIPLE check his work BEFORE hitting the button! That's what we get PAID FOR!
I have no problem with saying something like "Watch out for 'Brand-X' because you'll damage film if you aren't careful of... <some problem>!" That's what professionals do. They find problems and help others to prevent them.
But I have run Potts platters for over 10 years and I teach "stupid" college students how to run them too. I have not had ONE incident where film was scratched because of a misthread like that. Not even one frame!
Why? Because I teach my students to check, recheck and TRIPLE check their work!
If you get scratched film because you didn't check your threading before starting the show, it's YOUR OWN damn fault! Not the platter's!
P.S. Chad -- I'm not yelling at you, per se. You're the one trying to figure out the solution to this mess. But if it helps your case to say, "Some guy reamed us out for not double checking our work." Go ahead. I'll be the bad guy if it will get people to listen to you. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 11-27-2007 07:00 PM
I'm not a big fan of the Strong platter. But I have to use one and that's not going to change any time soon.
It is part of my job to maintain the computers in the office where I work. Eighteen of them. If it was my choice, I'd erase Microsoft Windows off every one of them, reformat the drives and install Linux but it's not. I have to work on the computers as they are.
I'm not saying that simply because I'm a Linux geek or because I like Macs better. I'm saying that because, in my opinion, Linux is a better operating system. People try to minimize me by saying that I just hate Microsoft but the truth is that I can use Microsoft Windows better than 90% of the people out there and I STILL don't like it.
For YOU, Brad, the platter issue is the same as the operating system issue for me. You could run a Strong platter better than most people can operate Christies. Cripes! You could probably operate an Eprad better than most people can operate Christies!
But, no matter what platter system you have to operate, you are a professional and you will do whatever you need to in order to do your job well.
While it is permissible to say, "If you would have used "System X" instead of Microsoft Windows your system wouldn't have crashed.", it is not permissible to advocate that nobody should use Windows.
While it is permissible to say, "If you had a Christie Platter in stead of a Strong it wouldn't have been so easy to scratch film.", it is not permissible to say that nobody should use Strong.
To be very honest, I believe the Strong/Potts platter is a decent product for its price. Yes it is cheap. It doesn't have the features and the polish that Christies do. But a conscientious operator can do a good job with them, without scratching film. It's not difficult. You just have to pay attention to your work. That's all.
I think I agree with Monte and Louis. While the design of the platter is a contributing factor in the problem, it is far outweighed by the fact that most booths are staffed by clowns who don't pay attention to their work.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-27-2007 08:09 PM
Sorry, but Strong platters are so poorly designed that it is extremely difficult not to cause damage when using them.
Now before everyone starts hollering about how great their presentation is and how they have never had a scratch, I am talking about any film damage...NOT just damage that doesn't show up on YOUR screen. Trust me, I've seen many, many, many prints that show lots of wear when I look at them in my screening room or at well equipped theaters, but they look fine on Strong systems because there just isn't enough light on the screen to show off the film damage. (Cheap owners who buy Strong certainly are going to use the bare minimum xenon power they can squeeze by with.) Plus those flimsy center rings are a primary example of the cause of cinch scratches, everything else being operated perfectly. (If the film was built to one platter and it never was moved, then that wouldn't be any big deal, but what multiplex doesn't move prints?) Also then there is the shitty breakdown table that usually causes film damage if not modified in some manner. We've been over this countless times before on these forums, so anyone with questions can do a search.
Film damage is film damage. It's time for some people to raise their standards.
BTW Sam is certainly right that this sort of nonsense wouldn't be so widespread if polyester base film was not a reality, but then again presentations in general have improved with the switch since fortunately today's polyester film is less prone to scratching. Theaters could always splice in a 5 foot stretch of "Neumade Fiesta" black leader at the ends of their leaders though if they wanted to. That stuff would break immediately in the event of a misthread. (There was a time when I used to splice in sections of acetate leader into interlocking leader to achieve the same effect.) In a pinch, I've known some operators to make a single sided splice joining the leader to the first trailer as well with that same theory being that IF there IS a major misthread somewhere that would trash the print, the single sided splice would break and shut down the movie before it even started. Jack Roe USA makes a 2 perf "economy" splicing tape that is ideal for this purpose if anyone wants to use that little trick.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-27-2007 09:11 PM
Chris, I don't expect people to understand without a first-hand demonstration. It's just like most things in life, people just don't know any better until they are proven otherwise. To quote the Matrix, "ignorance is bliss".
And yes most platters cause some degree of film damage. But then again, most reel to reel operations damage film too, just in different ways.
Still Chris you are missing the point here. The entire point of this argument is that Strong could've easily put keeper rollers on everything in their design to prevent such mistakes, yet they don't care enough about their product or their end users to do it. A company like Christie (who just happens to have a spectacular platter design) listens to the field and makes improvements over time. Anything past that I am afraid is simply more critical of a presentation than you care about, and you know what, if the print leaves your theater in what YOU think is a good, or acceptable or even what you think is perfect condition, that's all that matters because outside influences probably won't change your mind on the issue anyway. You have to open your eyes and raise your standards to see what I am talking about.
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