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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Author
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Topic: Advice Needed For Historic Theatre
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-20-2007 08:42 AM
At one point when our retrospective film program was going very well, much better than just breaking even, at least for subsidized non-profit, I was looking into putting in 70mm equipment. BTW, when I say we were doing very well, for us that just means not LOOSING any money; for a commercial operation that can't be the water mark. Luckily for us, we don't have to pay for electricity, heating/cooling, projectionist's salary as well as any of the key personnel who are on the Performing Arts Center's staff. If we had to cover those expenses and without corporate sponsorship, we probably would have folded after the first month.
Point is, at that time I had to come to the conclusion that I couldn't justify the expenditure for 70mm installation given the paucity of prints available. That handful of titles simply wouldn't be a good enough reason to jeopardize the rest of the operation. Once the studios stopped shipping via the Bonded film depot in NJ where we could have LI Film Delivery ship prints for $25 round trip and started shipping from CA via Air Borne and FexEx, at nearly $100 roundtrip, we were in big trouble. I can't imagine what it would cost to ship 70mm prints (most titles of which are LONG runtimes) across the country. And there are, what? a dozen available titles in 70mm that have decent color prints? As much as I love those titles, how many times can you run SOUND OF MUSIC and still draw an audience?
It is one thing if 70mm equipment is already there, bought and paid for, then sure, then you MIGHT be able to play a 70mm engagement IF a number of other cost factors can be made to work. But for any theatre that doesn't already have 70mm installed and operational from earlier days, I think it would be very hard to make a convincing economic argument at this point in time to take on the cost of a 70mm installation. If you are thinking seriously about it, then you need to do really objective research as to what titles are bookable with prints that are worthy of showing. Find out exactly how much shipping will cost you and what kind of guarantees and percentages will the studios be charging, and then what size audiences do you REALISTICALLY think you can draw on any of those given titles.
Yes, we would all love to have booths that are 70mm capable and we would like to book all those released-in-70mm titles, but just because you and I get heart palpitations at the thought of running 2001 or OKLAHOMA! in 70mm, that doesn't mean there will be enough people with our extraordinary good taste who will come out and pay good money to see it just because it is in 70mm....fools that they are.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-20-2007 10:10 AM
The only prints I know of Oklahoma! in 70mm are mag, including vault copies. Odds are, if there are going to just be a couple of vault prints struck, AND they want a composite print, it will have mag stripes. I wouldn't want to have just DTS as my only 70mm sound format. However, in the big picture, DTS is rather inexpensive, 35 or 70mm. DTS-70 now has (with firmware 2.1.x.x) separate lip-sync settings for 35 and 70mm programable for either manual (via menu) or automatic (via I/O port on back).
As to equipping for 70mm...That isn't too expensive really. It all depends if you are going for new or used. In the used market, JJs, AA2s and DP75s are not fetching high prices...in fact, they are often much more slow movers than their 35mm only counterparts. So, going half-way to 70mm is not such a hurtle. In the case of JJ, I think its 35mm picture is better than the SA's. If you are going used...you need to look at the wearable parts to see if obsolete is close at hand. The AA2 is blessed in that it rarely has major failures and most any consummable is available for it. Becuase the US-Domestic machines (Century/Simplex) share most of their drive trains with their 35mm counterparts, very few things are unique to the 70mm models which goes a long way to keeping them viable. Someone else could speak to say the Vic-8 which may very well be in production still (the best sign of parts availability).
Now if you are talking NEW machines...your choice is very slim...Kinoton's FP75E and possibly the Cinemeccanica V8. The Kinoton FP75E is a jewel and now in premiere form (faster electronic intermittent than previous models) is one of the steadiest picture on the planet...35, 70 (or digital). But it is a low-volume machine that costs quite a bit...considering the Dollar is trading to the Euro at about $1.45...depending on the day/hour. So yes, that would be a big pill to swallow on a hunch that you may run 70mm. But this machine can also switch between 3-wing shutter slow motion (silent films), 2-wing shutter 24fps and 30fps (Todd-AO) on the fly, if so equipped...quite handy for a PAC that might run anything, including silent films.
Steve
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-22-2007 11:47 AM
Brian is on the money here. This is NOT advocating installing 70mm in THIS venue but IF it is under consideration, getting the projectors NOW is smarter than replacing 35mm machines at a later time (presumming used equiment, since the prices will be similar). However changing out the equipment at a later date will effectively have one buying equipment twice. If the 35/70 machines never see 70mm, oh well, they will still run great 35mm and there is no loss there.
With multipurpose theatres, I normally advocate being as flexible as possible. Offer people what they CANT get at home or other venues. Silent films also come up on that list...especially if you have a place to put an orchestra or organ (or even a piano) in addition to showing the movie.
It is hard, but you need to really look deeply into your crystal ball and imagine what you COULD do in the venue and take the necessary steps that send you in that direction, even if you don't do it all at once.
At one of the venues I service, we installed Kinoton FP30/38E projectors (one of each so they could handle 16mm too) but with variable speed...it was nearly 4 years before they started running silent films (and have been increasing the showings in that category)...we didn't install the lenses at the onset but the projectors were equipped for variable speed with readout, 3-wing mode below 20fps. Had they not ordered the machines for this feature, the cost of installing it (and it was not available as a "subsequent installation" item when they were ordered), would have probably have tipped the scales to not running this type of film. It is much easier to take small steps than one big one (unless you have a grant or other pile of $$$ to do it all at once).
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-22-2007 03:42 PM
I tend to agree about it being much easier first time around. Once the thing is up and running, it is much harder to get all the forces lined up to make a change. Inertia is a very powerful thing. If I had put in 70mm when I first got them to put in projectors my very first year there, it would have served us all these years and we CERTAINLY would have run many 70mm enagements thru the years (and when the prints still had color, too!).
As it turns out, I did asked and got 4trk mag sound with that first installation; had I not, a few years after the fact I never would have been able to convinced them to upgrade since the (il)logic is, hey, you're up and running...why do we need to invest more money when it's working fine?" I can't tell you how many 4trk enagements we ran to great success during that whole period before optical stereo. If I hadn't told a white lie way back then -- "4trk mag is essential to be able to run modern day sound films...you want to be able to play sound films right? They we need this mag system" (what did they know ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ), I would have been playing mono engagements for over a decade.
Just as in Steve's example, if they had to find money later down the line in what is ALWAYS a tight budget, there are a million other things they will find more pressing to invest in rather than additional equipement for something that is not broken. Any new project, like running silent films would, in more cases than not, be abandoned in favor of fixing that house light dimmer system or whatever, which IS broken.
But again, I would caution that really thorough research be done to find out if the cost of actually booking and running 70mm prints (not so much the cost of getting 70/35 projectors as opposed to standard 35s) is viable in that location.
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Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler
Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007
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posted 12-23-2007 06:18 PM
quote: Brian Guckian
Indeed, this sounds logical - BUT - in practice it rarely works out like that. Essentially once the original investment is made on start-up one is stuck with the installation - however it is specified - more or less permanently. The idea that good box office over time facilitates further investment (in this case say, replacement of 35mm equipment with dual-gauge 35/70mm) is illusory as the income is generally used to offset running costs and reduce dependency on subsidies. It very rarely leads to massive investment in new equipment.
Absolutely true, but it depends on what else the venue runs. If it's your standard PAC with other stage acts present, I'd say this is true.
But, if it's something else, with the focus being film shows, the investment is TOWARDS running film. So starting small and building up makes sense (and as we all know, good projectors are not hard to get at a good price these days).
But now I see Adam is talking about one or two shows a month, so in that case, I would say to start off with the best you can get.
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