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Topic: Are we the last of a dying breed?

Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 01-11-2008 02:31 PM

Tim I'm not talking about the work that Lucas has done I'm talking about his pushing the Digital medium for the theater he wants all presentation to be in Digital he has clearly stated it several times.

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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 01-11-2008 02:59 PM

I know the digital conversion is causing a booth tech I know to specialize in rebuilding Simplex projectors for new builds. This chain has been buying these from another chain and the tech is finding the heads to be in troublesome shape and has to replace numerous bearings, sprockets, gears, shafts...he got chewed on for spending so much on parts and his response was "Do you want the new theatre to open with crappy presentation?" He's still rebuilding...

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-11-2008 03:31 PM

A dying breed - thus, if one wants to start up a discount business, which way should he go then...film,digital, or have both available?

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-11-2008 06:19 PM

I'm waiting to see some much bigger companys than mine do a full conversion. That attitude alone has been enough to generate some pretty strong comments by a few of my brethren... some of them now "former". Some of them were sure that we'd all be digital by now, and said so. Their projected "drop dead" dates all passed, and not a whole lot has changed since then.

Personally, I don't know how so many of you come by information that makes you feel as strongly as you do, yet come up with such different prognostications.

Seems safer to just watch the big guys and let it be at that.

BTW... A few months ago, our local Deluxe outlet doubled it's square footage. Somebody must've forgotten to tell them they wouldn't be needing it. [Razz]

BTW2... Is there anything to the story that the digital stuff is being mastered on film because the digital media doesn't hold up as long, or the formats change? Funny if it's true. Imagine having to keep an AppleII around, just so you could read an archived 'AppleII Basic' cassette!

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 01-11-2008 06:20 PM

quote: Ron Funderburg
Tim I'm not talking about the work that Lucas has done I'm talking about his pushing the Digital medium for the theater he wants all presentation to be in Digital he has clearly stated it several times.

Yet he has a pair of Simplex XLs in the Stag.

When the DLPs went in here, the writing was on the wall... and I am learning that that 'unattended fully automated booth' fairy tale is coming true. I have been notified that my services as a projectionist here will no longer be needed by summer.

Leaving me with some career choices to make... Do I remain with the company as a technician, servicing the few non-DLP venues we have and doing sound system service, or do I try for a job with Christie as a DLP tech, or do I find another job with a company that hasn't jumped onto the DLP bandwagon?

-Aaron

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-11-2008 06:23 PM

Why not be qualified for both? From what I've read (here?), some of the IP-types that are working on those digital machines, don't know where to put the oil can on the 35s they're contracted to work on.

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-11-2008 06:40 PM

Last of a dying breed? Yes, eventually. In the meantime, in my area (NY-NJ metropolitan) the conversion has been slow. One ten-plex opened two counties south of us this summer, but I'm not seeing digital conversions in the metropolitan area, save for a few random 3-D installations.

Everyone in this area has a lot of money wrapped up in 35mm equipment, so unless you are the new kid on the block, digital is still prohibitive cost-wise.

That's not to say that will be the case a few years down the road.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-11-2008 07:19 PM

Ah, how quaint.

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 01-11-2008 08:10 PM

quote: Ron Funderburg
Brian ever paid for a print? I have and 90 minutes cost me $1500 over 2 hours you are charged 2000 + now maybe Hollywood doesn't get charged as much as they charge us but that is the listed price on making a print.

Sorry to go back here but I do need to reply to that Ron.

The figure I was using was given to me before Christmas and was based on bulk release of a major feature. That figure was very similar to figures used for Virtual Print Fees; indeed I was told it was actually less in some cases.

You're quite right in that large-scale bulk release print pricing can be significantly different to that for single prints or low quantities.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-11-2008 08:32 PM

Aaron...why not just add Digital to your arsenal of talents? Why let a change in technology be the end of the line? I know some techs that hung it up when test equipment got computerized. It may seem silly to those of us that don't think twice about firing up the laptop but to some, it was a hurdle that could not be gone over. I saw the same thing to an old-timer projectionist when confronted with platters! Now it is the same film but with a longer path...he had been running projectors for about 60-year (he was around 80 at the time and was sharp as a tack)...but for some reason he just could deal with that extended film path...we gave him WEEKS to just play with the platters to get comfortable with them...but it just wasn't going to take...so he retired (this was about 20-years ago).

For a tech, digital projection should just be the next step unless you are really close to retirement and Aaron, you don't look THAT old to me. Since you are considering Christie (and I see MiT has a Help Wanted post here on FT) it appears you are considering making the jump to digital but it really doesn't need to be a jump...more of a step. You still need to bring your screwdrivers, wrenches, BIG hammer, computer and such. The sound is pretty much the same as always. A-chains go much faster! I still find that I can spend as much time tweeking a DCinema machine as a film machine though, if not more so...when was the last time you converged a film machine? The big hit to the tech is that color meter...they are expensive and essential (it would be kinda like doing an A-Chain without an "O-scope" or analyzer...a waste of time).

Steve

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-11-2008 08:39 PM

Yeah Aaron, if Gulbrandsen can do it.... [Big Grin]

(Just kiddin' Mark!) [thumbsup]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-11-2008 09:00 PM

quote: Brian Guckian
I have to disagree with you Mark, especially your comments on scratching and dust - anyone who has learnt anything from this Forum or their workplace knows that these problems are not a function of the medium per se but of the way it is (mis) handled and (mis) used. This should be self-evident at this stage.

You are right... its not a function with the medium itself it is a problem with the medium and the poor help available. You must think that everyone reads Film-Tech.

quote: Brian Guckian
And to say that film is "quaint" is just incorrect. Are oil paintings "quaint"? Are musical instruments "quaint"? Is pen and paper "quaint"?

Hardly so... the perforated medium and spinning sprockets are indeed VERY quaint... weather they be spun electronically or mechanically it more represents an old International farm tractor. Some musical instruments can be very quaint, the Harpsichord for instance... pen and paper...? Pen and an ink well are certainly quaint!

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Odds are that both film & digital wil co-exist for quite some time.....15 years? 90%

8% that digital will replace film in that time.

2% that we will revert back to film for some reason.

Look for 50% conversion in about 4 years or slightly less. Regal, AMC, Cinemark, Carmike... oh and the 8700 members of CBG.... who else is there that really matters? What these chains do will affect what the rest of the world ultimately HAS TO DO. But film will be around for alot longer than 15 years... more like 150 years or longer for vault items, Leo could say with more certainty on this. And then there are collectors some of whom store prints with great care. General release prints will become too expensive to manufacture in quantity when digital saturation is at about 50% so it will become difficult to convince distribution to strike prints for the smaller markets as they now do. CBG will help out it's 8700 members there. Even less film will be manufactured by then anyway as Kodak continues to slow down manufacturing because of lower demand. Oh and yes the slowdown in print stock manufacture will also cause it to cost alot more.

90% that film will replace digital.. the gears are already in motion for that and its happenning as you read this.. so you don't have to wait for some industry friends predictions as Jack O. seems to think .

quote: Jonathan Wood
I think film will continue for a good time yet. It seems everyone in the US is going digital much quicker than the rest of the world.

What is happening here will affect the rest of the world... trickle down effect.

quote: Ron Funderburg
It makes little sense to me with the cost of the projectors.

Carmike does not own the projectors, AIX does and thats also why only Christie can service them.

quote: Bruce Hansen
When they get rid of those minimum wage projectionists, they will have to replace them with people who know video projection and people who know servers.

Actually it will be easy to find "kids" that can operate D-Cinema. As a test all you need to know is if they can do e-mail.. surf the web, download, and know that when a computer hangs or does something strange that they have to re-boot. But finding a "kid" that recognizes when an intermittent is in need of oil or a screw that holds the sprocket on the shaft comes loose is next to impossible... "kids" of today are computer oriented... few are mechanically oriented or even inclined... times have changed! The techs will deal with the actual serverproblems either at the location or by remote access.

quote: Ron Funderburg
Tim I'm not talking about the work that Lucas has done I'm talking about his pushing the Digital medium for the theater he wants all presentation to be in Digital he has clearly stated it several times.

Ron... Thats kind of a Dah thing... stuff filmed digitally always looks better presented digitally. Ever see any of the Pixar movies projected digitally?

quote: Aaron Sisemore
Do I remain with the company as a technician, servicing the few non-DLP venues we have and doing sound system service, or do I try for a job with Christie as a DLP tech, or do I find another job with a company that hasn't jumped onto the DLP bandwagon?

Aaron,
First you need to be happy in your work. If you're not happy then you should find other work so you are happy. If you go to Christie expect 70+ hour work weeks... You need to balance your decision on happiness in your work and on how many years you still need to work before retirement. Decide from there... You no doubt are certainly capable of doing both film and D-Cinema... these types of techs are more valualable to a company like Christie... keep in mind that BARCO is also not too far from you up in Sacramento.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Yeah Aaron, if Gulbrandsen can do it....

One system this week and two next week! All Dolby based... thank god!

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 01-11-2008 09:52 PM

In Australia we will still be training and employing projectionists till at least the end of this decade.

The situation is that majors have a few dci systems that get occasional use – most wide releases are 100% 35mm, with a mix of new and imported used prints.

Independents are the same, except that an increasing number of independent cinemas are installing 2k servers to play a growing number of releases on dlp projectors of the 1.3k variety. The quality of the files, these new servers and projectors is very good on average-sized screens. Particularly when compared with some of the used prints.

There are several benefits to this mixed system. The cinema can get an earlier date on a limited release movie; extended seasons and repeats are just a phone call away; you can rewind FilmGuard media at leisure ready for the next 35mm show and your xenon gets to rest for a couple of hours.

Films such as “As It Is In Heaven” and “Death At A Funeral” have taken millions more here from digital copies. Several excellent productions – “The Jammed” and “4” for example were released exclusively in this format.

One downside is that there were some dodgy installations using cheap data projectors and DVDs.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-11-2008 09:59 PM

Deleted post [Eek!]

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 01-11-2008 10:00 PM

Mark, I didn't say that things produced in digital don't look better in digital. I'm saying that all the push by those in the business for it is economic. Lucas makes money off the digital process and it is a financial thing and it those pushing the locals to do digital aren't doing it for artistic reason they are for economic reason. And only their economics matter not ours! And that is most certainly a DUH thing! and MU-LA thing! And a put more money in Mr. THX's pocket thing!

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