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Author Topic: Format 42 Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-10-2008 07:53 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag The subwoofer really didn't gain in popularity until about 1980 with the CP200... quote: Mark Lensenmayer Did this have anything to do with Warner's MEGASOUND process? It's worth noting the four MEGASOUND productions were released within one year of the introduction of the Dolby CP200.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-10-2008 08:30 PM                       quote: Scott Norwood Tim: I thought that "baby boom" was just another name for format 42. Or is it something different entirely? Oh, you're probably right. That's why I was asking. As Louis mentioned, there were a lot of mods for that processor, so I don't know if the Le and Re assignments were later changed (format 42 - 70mm with mono surround).  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-10-2008 10:11 PM                     For Altered States Mega Sound used EvenTide clockwork sub bass generators  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 02-11-2008 10:09 AM                       The Bass generators were on the record end. The playback system was unchanged although extra real subs were installed in addition to the LE RE speakers if the cinema had them.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2008 10:48 AM                     At the University theatre in Toronto for Altered States there was a eventide unit with 4 amps in a portable rack for the extra subs that were added to the existing CP100/SA5 system there  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2008 12:18 PM                     I seem to recall that the Ziegfeld in NYC had an Eventide Harmonizer. Was this for additional surround delay? They didn't play Megasound. Bob  |  IP: Logged Dan Sherlock Film Handler Posts: 11 From: Hollywood, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2008 posted 02-12-2008 08:28 PM                     Megasound is described in US Patent 4,110,017. It is similar to Dolby's "Baby Boom" but uses a technique similar to that provided by the old dbx "Boom Box" subharmonic synthesizer. Existing bass frequencies are sampled and divided by half in frequency to create an additional lower octive of sound. -Dan  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 02-12-2008 11:30 PM                       Interesting. I did a couple of 70MM previews of this film, one in Vancouver and one in San Francisco as well as setups before the openings. All these had additional Amps and Cerwin Vega Subs but no extra electronic hardware. I always wondered what the fuss about Mega Sound was all about  |  IP: Logged Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-13-2008 07:23 PM                     quote: Sam D. Chavez I did a couple of 70MM previews of this film... Sam: By "this," am I correct to assume you are referring to "Altered States" (1980)? There were other Megasound titles, hence my request for a clarification.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 02-13-2008 09:02 PM                        I'm with Sam on this one. My tests (Altered States) used conventional Dolby equipment and big amps....& baby boom. Louis  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 02-13-2008 11:43 PM                       Yes to Altered States  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 03-02-2008 07:22 PM                        Altered States at the now-defunct Loew's Astor Plaza was a great experience. As for format 42, let me see if I can state it a little differently, which hopefully will lend some additional clarity. Before Dolby, the later 70mm mag films didn't really do a discrete mix across all 5 screen channels. They mixed for 4-track and combined Left and Center and Center and Right and put that into the Left Center and Right Center channels. Dolby decided that was a waste of those channels and in the Baby Boom format, decided to send Low Frequency ( less than 200Hz) info there. Star Wars (70mm) was the first film in this format. For the roadshow presentations of Close Encounters, some theatres installed a B Chain with 8 Cerwin-Vega "baby earthquake" subs and 21 Bose 901 surrounds. I saw it at the Ziegfeld where I don't think they added surrounds, but they did add the subs and it was quite an experience. Seeing the "special edition" of Close Encounters a few years later was not as great an experience. When Megasound was used for Altered States (1980) at the Village Theatre in Westwood, i believe they used the Cerwin-Vega L36PE subs. I don't believe the CP200 was released until May of 1980, which seems strange to me in retrospect because I believe it would have been necessary for split surround. I no longer remember whether the CP100 could have supported that format.) Apocalypse Now was the first commercially released film with split surrounds (Format 43) (Superman had some experimental sequences with split surround). That was released in November, 1979. Low frequencies in channels 2 and 4 were still sent to the Baby Booms, but high frequencies were also recorded into those channels and sent to the split surrounds combined with low frequencies from the mono surround track. There were low pass filters at 250Hz for the baby booms and high pass filters at 500 Hz for the surrounds from channels 2 and 4 and a 500 Hz Low Pass filter from track 6 to the surrounds.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-02-2008 07:34 PM                     I thought Format 43 was backward compatible with Format 42. The way I understood it, from Apocalypse Now being an example, a Format 43 mix on 70mm had three screen channels and three other channels pulling double duty for Formats 42 and 43. The LS and RS channels for Format 43 also had the LFE audio for Format 42. And the Mono Surround channel for Format 42 had the LFE audio for Format 43. Wasn't that how it worked?  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-02-2008 08:54 PM                       "I thought Format 43 was backward compatible with Format 42. The way I understood it, from Apocalypse Now being an example, a Format 43 mix on 70mm had three screen channels and three other channels pulling double duty for Formats 42 and 43. The LS and RS channels for Format 43 also had the LFE audio for Format 42. And the Mono Surround channel for Format 42 had the LFE audio for Format 43. Wasn't that how it worked?" The missing link is the Dolby SA5 unit whipped up for Superman and Apocalypse Now. It worked with the CP100 to provide split surrounds as well as 1/3 Octave EQ for the surrounds. The Low Freq. info on channels 2 and 4 went to the subs after processing, the above 250 Hz Channel 2 was combined through a filter with the channel 6 low freq. mono surround info and went to left surround; channel 4 above 250 Hz info went to right surround as in the previous sentence. Channel 6 or rear surround use was optional on screens equipped for left and right surrounds, but was very useful as it provided a 6 track mix for screens without Stereo surround capability.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 03-02-2008 09:01 PM                       You really had to watch your "P's" and "Q's" with that setup.  |  IP: Logged

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