my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » What's The Proper Way To Return A Print? (Page 2)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Author Topic: What's The Proper Way To Return A Print? Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2008 12:19 PM                     And as always...I've found emulsion-in to be preferred on all of the 2-projector systems I'm responsible for, including with modern poly prints. I also will continue to fully attach leaders/tails. Steve  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-23-2008 12:54 PM                     Brad, why do you think the SMPTE test was done on 6,000-foot reels? I don't see any reference to that in the paper, and it makes explicit reference to "standard release reels of approximately 1,800 ft each," as well as other references to 2,000' reels. We should all recognize the emulsion-in advice was based on acetate film-base. Various people have reported other preferences for polyester; it seems like a lot has to do with humidity and climate, and thus with location. Going back a bit, I generally find it's possible to securely tape down reels without damaging the barcode/copy# sticker, and I do find it useful to have them readable. Yes, in theory there are databases which have the precise correspondence. But reels do get moved around between prints and that is not always trackable. (Yes, I also realize that heads may move between prints as well. I do what I can). --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-23-2008 01:19 PM                     John, a long time ago John Pytlak explained the hub to outer wrap on 6K reels as being the primary reason for that paper. And sadly more often than not prints that Steve plays will have that first frame chopped off by the next guy because most people are too lazy to peel a double sided splice. That advice is simply not in the best interest of the print.  |  IP: Logged Richard P. May Expert Film Handler Posts: 243 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jan 2006 posted 04-23-2008 01:20 PM                     The trouble with shipping a print to a theater emulsion in is that it is the opposite of standard U.S. projection practice. If the projectionist does not catch this, the image is going to hit the screen "flipped" left to right. The film would have to come off the reel clockwise (off the front of the reel), which does such things as make reel end alarms inoperative. I am, of course, speaking only for reel to reel operation. RPM  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-23-2008 01:23 PM                     That's only true of head-out emulsion-in. Tail-out emulsion-in is fully consistent with the typical S-wind. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-23-2008 01:42 PM                     Richard said "The film would have to come off the reel clockwise (off the front of the reel), which does such things as make reel end alarms inoperative" The Jackson reel alarms had no issues with either direction  |  IP: Logged Ron Funderburg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 814 From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-23-2008 01:44 PM                        Does anyone else miss the paper reel protectors that use to come on each reel? It made keeping the head and tail simple you put the head tail wound up inside it! I think if that is a dollar savings for Technicolor and Deluxe it is a false economy!  |  IP: Logged Richard P. May Expert Film Handler Posts: 243 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jan 2006 posted 04-23-2008 02:02 PM                     Ron, What is a "head tail"? Yes, the old reel bands, used properly, kept the film wound securely, but I don't see how they would make sloppy people put them on the correct reels with their little strings wound around the tab. John, Of course your are right about tails out being emulsion in, but I was referring to the print being ready to show. RPM  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2008 04:19 PM                     Richard, I think most, if not all of my reel-to-reel screens run emulsion-in on both upper and lower reels. The AFI being a notable exception, running a conventional S-Wind....but I will get them converted too! As for the frame being chopped...that is up to the NEXT guy...nothing I did prevented them from peeling. I also don't like to encourage the platter thing...if they are reel-to-reel (sensible people), they will be appreciative...then again if it ran on 20-min reels at my theatre...all of the splices (if a used print run in a large-reel/platter house previously), would have a full splice...is it the shipping theatre's responsibility to peel one half of the splice before shipping? Note, too, I never argued Brad's not leaving an ID frame point since really, in essence, the ID frame requires the original theatre (1st run) to compromise their show (out of sync sound pull up) in order to allow the subsequent run to feel-good about the reel order when there are several means of determining reel order in any case. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-23-2008 07:37 PM                     I think that the overwhelming majority of reel to reel theaters in the US that are not setup by Steve actually do follow the traditional S wind. On the flip side, all of the reel to reel theaters I setup wind exclusively emulsion out on feed and takeup, like the labs do, because that is the right way to do it. (Right Steve? ) But if you go to the average run-of-the-mill changeover theater (it is often hard to find them, but look closely) you will see the traditional S wind of emulsion out feed and emulsion in takeup is in use. Telluride Film Festival follows that practice as well primarily as I am told because it is what everyone is used to so as not to confuse anyone. As far as a reel to reel theater untaping one side of a splice upon shipout, absolutely not. Leave it as it is because the next theater may be another reel to reel theater and I am all about not handling the film any more than it absolutely has to. However if the film was mounted on 6000' reels or a tower or a platter, then by all means a single sided splice should be used. Should that print happen to find itself in a 2000' changeover house on it's next playdate (with odds of probably less than 1% chance of that actually happening), then any good changeover operator is already well seasoned to expect everything from masking tape to stapled on leaders and will simply add the second side of tape before they project it. On the ID frame issue, if someone absolutely HAS to cut a frame off, then it should ONLY be done on the head of the reel. Those who find it too difficult to give a "positive match" without an ID frame can simply do it at the head of the reel, and at least that only causes a 1 frame jump in continuity at the splice, and it also doesn't screw over a changeover theater that may end up playing the print (because remember, those guys are expecting 18 frames after the second cue mark).  |  IP: Logged Derrick Huggins Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Gotham City Registered: Feb 2008 posted 04-27-2008 06:57 PM                    hmmm i have always just used masking tape . and had heads out, tails in. i dont bother to resplice, just run the film over with masking tape is fine.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-27-2008 06:58 PM                     Oh boy are YOU in the wrong place!  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 04-27-2008 09:32 PM                        I don't know if this is a "good" practice, but I actually prefer to just tuck the head and tail under the film rather than adding more tape and/or splices to the film. And I echo the others about the fold over tab on the tape. This makes it so much easier to pull off the next time around.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-28-2008 02:40 AM                     Tucking the leaders is evil. When the next guy goes to unwind it, often the loose film will flap over from gravity and slap the ground. Please be a professional and single sided splice the leaders (BOTH head and tail) back on.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 04-28-2008 12:57 PM                     quote: Ron Funderburg Does anyone else miss the paper reel protectors that use to come on each reel? Being an old time reel-to-reel operator I do miss the paper reel bands. Contrary to presnt day accepted practice, one of the FIRST things I was taught by an old union projectionist was to NEVER use tape in any capacity on film. This included using tape for splicing. The reasoning was that the adheasive would only eventualy find its' way into gunking up your projectors. Prior to the advent of non-acetate filmstocks, tape splices were considered by many people (including myself) to be unprofessional and lazy excuses for "real" splices. The problem I currently find with paper reel bands is that most guys don't understand how to properly attach/use them. Their number one mistake is that they TAPE the end of reel band to the end of the film. No no no no NOOOOO!! No! This only 1)ruins the reel band when you try & re-use it; 2) Defeats one of the purposes of the reel band, which was to keep you from having to apply tape to the film at all. (thus gunking up the projectors again) The reel band was made to be secured by using the string that was (usually!) attached to it. Yes, I know the strings often broke off, but any good operator kept a small spool of spare string in a drawer (right next to the splicing fluid....) to repair reel bands with broken strings. One thing you didn't find in that drawer was tape. NEVER!!!! But I suppose I'm living in the past.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.