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Author Topic: What's The Proper Way To Return A Print? Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-28-2008 01:17 PM                        I recently got a print from the AFI Silver. It came in tails up, emulsion in, leaders uncut, and was in mint condition with handmade cues (not sure if that was done at the AFI or elsewhere). If it had not been shipeed from the AFI, I would have assumed that it was a lab-new print. Thanks to whomever works there. How does everyone feel about leaving theatre-applied labels on prints when shipping them out? Most platter houses put a piece of tape on the tail (hopefully with 10-20' of extra film spliced onto the lab tail) that indicates the title and picture and sound formats. Most changeover houses do something similiar on the head (and often tail) of each reel. Does anyone prefer that these labels be removed when the film is shipped out? I always leave them in hopes that they will be helpful to the next house. Does anyone prefer that they be removed? What about temporary changeover cues (grease pencil slashes, etc.)? Do people prefer that these be left on in order to save some work for the next theatre, or should they be removed because they didn't come with the print? Also not mentioned yet: please do _not_ tape the film to the core or reel hub when shipping it out. Actually, don't use the "slot" in the shipping reels, either (it isn't needed). As mentioned above, don't use tape with reel bands. As for winding orientation, I've never seen any difference and every booth that I have run does S-wind on reels or soundtrack-up on platters. Any other approach might be confusing and seems (in my experience) to offer little or no benefit.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-28-2008 01:19 PM                     Amen Jim! Taped down reel bands was always one of those "what are they thinking" questions that baffled me. What was sad was when ETS back in the old days used to cut the string off and tape the band down on brand new prints. Re: grease pencil. That crap almost always goes by unnoticed in the next inspection and I've got news for some of you...IT LOOKS LIKE SHIT ON THE SCREEN! Also wiping it off causes more dirt at the reel changes due to the extra handling. Grease pencils should be outlawed. I always leave the label on the tail of a plattered print, because it has no adverse effect on anyone in the future. The changeover houses that put a piece of tape on the tip end with the reel number, that is annoying and bad practice in my opinion (and I will tell you why). When the next theater has to build up the print and roll up the leaders, that practice I have seen tends to get people to wind up the leaders inside out, such that the outer wrap of film on the leader roll is the last foot of the countdown...meaning that section of leader that gets dirty now is placed directly up against the first wrap of the content of the reel upon shipout. This is because most people don't want to deal with untaping the label and most know better than to try to put tape on tape. The alternative is to cut that first several inches off, but then that is shortening the leader. My preferred method for running changeovers, as well as how I teach people to build prints, is to check each reel one by one to make sure they are all heads up, then stack them horizontally on a table with the first reel on top and the last reel on the bottom of the stack. Then during the movie (or buildup process), the operator doesn't even have to think, he just grabs the next reel on the stack. Never have I heard of or seen a print built out of order or a changeover presentation ran out of order when this practice was used. Oh and the best part...no tape is needed! Just tuck the first few inches in between the film roll and the reel flange just like a platter house would tuck the end of the print. No damage, no tape, no hassle, no problem.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-28-2008 01:29 PM                        You prefer that changeover houses add permanent scratch cues, Brad? I can see both arguments here: - adding _correct_ and _neat_ permanent cues (with a Clint Phare device or similar) reduces the liklihood that some other theatre will add ugly and/or incorrect permanent cues -or- - since most engagements (at least for mainstream releases) are likely to be run on platters or 6000' reels, cues should be removable for a cleaner presentation for future audiences I keep going back and forth on this myself, but my current preference is for removable cues. If anyone has a better method that is as easy to apply and remove as grease-pencil slashes and that can be easily seen on screen, I'm all ears. Obviously, this wouldn't be an issue if every print came with lab cues, but that isn't the case with some films (especially from French or Spanish labs).  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 04-28-2008 01:44 PM                        My theatre usually removes the labels on the tails as well as any bar code stickers because we've had problems with them being read as automation cues. When we have to pull of these labels, it usually leaves some adhesive. Rather than putting the information on a label that goes on the print, we write the relevant info on a white board posted at the auditorium.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-28-2008 02:10 PM                     We move prints around enough that that'd be a pain. And if I can't even trust all my coworkers to move prints when they close, I can about guarantee that I can't trust those same people to write down information for the print on a whiteboard.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-28-2008 03:50 PM                     Scott, the solution is simply to refuse to play prints without lab cues. Seriously though I know where you are coming from and it is a difficult choice to make. Lately I am leaning more and more toward putting a proper Clint Phare cue on. If I don't, someone else will just do a sloppy job with a knife.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-28-2008 04:15 PM                     We get alot of pre-release prints from labs. Other than the standard cue we all see, cues done by a proper clint phare maker are the best. Grease pencil cues look like shit and as Brad said causes alot of dirt at reel ends. If you have to make a Temp cue on a print you should use those small paper dots tapes from places like Staples. We use the clint phare style cue maker here.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 04-29-2008 08:47 PM                     I return all prints tails out, single side spliced on heads and tails, all cues removed, and about 3 inches of white artists tape holding down the end of the tail. Almost forgot to mention the 6 feet of clear film I attach to the tail of the last reel. You, the next theatre, get that too!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-29-2008 09:42 PM                        I, too, remember being taught the "no tape on film, EVER!" rule when first starting out. We had a roll of Scotch tape in the booth that was strictly to be used for taping notes, theatre calendars, etc. to the wall and nothing else. It was a weird feeling to start using a tape splicer. When I first started getting reel bands that were taped to the film, I would just fold the tape over the end of the reel band. Figured that would reinforce the end of the band, and have the added benefit of the tape wouldn't be stuck to the film. The stupidest idea in the history of reel bands was those self-adhesive, stringless bands that lasted exactly one time and thereafter had to be taped down. I wonder what bean-counter came up with that one? (Probably the same one who eventually decided reel bands weren't necessary.)  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-29-2008 10:23 PM                     Just send it out with the heads/tails on the correct reels with an uncut frame still attached to prove it and I'm happy.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-30-2008 02:53 AM                     I'd have to go back and dig (I think this was posted here on F-T, but maybe I'm misremembering), but my recollection is that Technicolor discontinued reel bands because most of them did not come back. Theatres had "forgotten" how to use them on such a large scale that they were becoming impractical. I know! Let's blame National Screen. When trailers stopped coming with reel bands, it was The Beginning Of The End. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-30-2008 03:01 AM                     Speaking of which, is anyone else annoyed at the amazing durability of the clear tape coming in on some trailers these days? I'll have to look closer to find out which studio is doing it, but no longer can you grab the corner of the last wrap of film and just tear the trailer open. At least one studio is using a clear piece of tape so strong you have to really pry your finger in there or use scissors!  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-30-2008 03:15 AM                     Well, then there are those of us whacko "trailer archivists" who want to preserve the original studio label from the trailer tail for when we file the trailer away for future (repertory) use after it comes off-screen. Lately trailers have started to come with the label holding the end on, so I've had to resort to cutting the trailer open with a razor blade (cutting the film!) to keep the label intact Ridicule away! (While we're at it, a few Universal trailers have also had the labels start to fade really fast. We had trailers for Atonement sitting in our booth and by the time we got around to showing it (a bit late, to be sure), the labels had faded to the point near unreadibility. Like they were on thermal paper or something. Crazy...it's not like there's direct sunlight in our booth or anything...) --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Chad M Calpito Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 04-30-2008 03:17 AM                        From what I can remember, I think it's 20th Century Fox that's doing that, Brad. But, don't quote me on it since I am doing this from memory.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 04-30-2008 05:40 AM                        While we're talking about trailers, one of the things that infuriates me is taped on "attached" trailers that are out of frame. I've had this happen about a half dozen time. If Deluxe/ETS is going to manually attach a trailers, the least they can do is get their people frame counters and teach them to do it right. And while I'm at it, can I bitch about the split reels not being properly aligned to the cores. It's one thing to maybe have the occasional reel that's done wrong, but I've had more than one print where I've had to "fix" every single reel.  |  IP: Logged

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