|
|
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
|
|
Author
|
Topic: 'Fight Club' and the bastardization of projection terms...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays
Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999
|
posted 05-08-2008 06:10 PM
Mitchell's got it on flat. It was to differentiate between 3D subjects, circa 1953... the same year CinemaScope appeared. quote: Frank Angel
it's got your 1.66 with the "European" reference and my "Sync Leader."
FYI, that's referring to sound sync, not synchronizing with an incoming projector on changeover.
I'll bet you think there's only those two leaders in existence, Academy and SMPTE, right? The ones you see every day. And each of them has a frame that says, "PICTURE START". Did you ever wonder WHY it says that?
Well, it's not to give you something to thread-up on. There is a companion leader that you never see. It's for the sound negative roll, and in the same place on that leader there's a big full frame that says, "SOUND START" (I know you can sometimes see this in small writing over in the soundtrack area, but that's ALL you can see of it on release prints. It is a twin to the "PICTURE START" frame, in the "image" area of the soundtrack negative film, and they are both used for printing sync when the release print is struck (depending on the printer used, you may also see a longer leader that says, "PANEL SYNC").
But this is what they mean when they reference a "sync leader". It has nothing to do with making changeovers. quote: Scott Norwood
What about "soundhead" vs. "sound reproducer"?
To this day, when I fill out service reports, I write "reproducer". ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 05-09-2008 10:52 AM
quote: Tim Reed
on flat. It was to differentiate between 3D subjects, circa 1953... the same year CinemaScope appeared.
Well, for once I can say that I am not old enough to actual predate a time when there was no FLAT slang, so I can't be sure that my theory is anything but a theory (which is the way I prefaced my post).
Then again, Tim, you are probably younger than I am so unless you can point to some definitive reference, your contention that it came about to distinguish 2D prints from 3D prints is only a theory as well. In fact, I would think there would be less need to identify a 2D print from a 3D print given that a projectionist would immediately know if a print were 3D or 2D simply by the fact that there were a Left eye and a Right eye print. They really wouldn't need differentiating nomenclature, whereas just looking at the cans, it's not immediately apparent if you have a CinemaScope or standard print. And of course, THAT's just a theory as well. We would need a few REALLY old timers to settle this one.
quote: Tim Reed
this is what they mean when they reference a "sync leader". It has nothing to do with making changeovers.
Well, the countdown leader or "sync leader" certainly does synchronize changeover between the two machines -- in fact, that's its primary function along with the cue system. Hence my early mentor not only called the count-down leader the "sync leader," but neither did he use the more common term "motor cue;" he called then the "sync cue" (which indicates the start of the sync leader on the incoming machine) and changeover cue. Makes logical sense and I am not the only one who has heard them called this. So yes, there is sync sound and non-sync sound references to sound on the film and sound that is not, but synchronizing the outgoing projector with the incoming one at changeover is precisely the function of the leader and the cues so sync leader is fine by me.
quote: Tim Reed
I'll bet you think there's only those two leaders in existence, Academy and SMPTE, right? The ones you see every day.
Well, yes....those are the two types that have different timings and so those two would be of significance to the projectionist. What's your point?
quote: Tim Reed
each of them has a frame that says, "PICTURE START". Did you ever wonder WHY it says that?
Well, it's not to give you something to thread-up on. There is a companion leader that you never see. It's for the sound negative roll, and in the same place on that leader there's a big full frame that says, "SOUND START" (I know you can sometimes see this in small writing over in the soundtrack area, but that's ALL you can see of it on release prints.
Not sure what you mean here, Tim. Most Academy leaders still have PICTURE START and SOUND START frames. And yes, they certainly are useful for the projectionist in threading as they indicate the place where the soundtrack and its corresponding image frame are in sync, i.e., they indicated the soundtrack offset. Put the PICTURE START in the gate and SOUND START at the scanning slit and you are in dead sync. In fact, on Academy Leaders, each footage number has a corresponding diamond which gives an easy visual indication of the 20 frame sound offset.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays
Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999
|
posted 05-09-2008 06:13 PM
Let's see if I can do this without being insulting. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Frank, age or length of time in the booth has nothing to do with technical prowess. Certainly, you've probably breathed more carbon ash and made more changeovers than I have - good for you - but I can tell by the things you've said over the years and the vernacular you use, that you don't fully understand, for example, how those arc lamps work. You may think you do, but it's a cursory knowledge. And, while that's probably a ton more than most people here know about that subject, it does leave open the possibility for misunderstanding - simply because you've not been exposed to anything else nor had the opportunity to "see the world," as it were. As well as the fact that you never seem to be open to amendment or correction.
No one is infallible (especially me.. and there's plenty of examples here to prove it), but regardless of how you try to rationalize your erroneous pet beliefs, sound sync and projector changeovers are two different things.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 05-10-2008 01:40 AM
quote: Frank Angel
In fact, I would think there would be less need to identify a 2D print from a 3D print given that a projectionist would immediately know if a print were 3D or 2D simply by the fact that there were a Left eye and a Right eye print. They really wouldn't need differentiating nomenclature, whereas just looking at the cans, it's not immediately apparent if you have a CinemaScope or standard print.
There has been some 3-D releases that were printed for single machine inventory and used a special split element lens that required an anamorphic attachment to expand the two side by side images to a 1.33/1 image release, or have a simgle frame with two 2.00/1 images stacked one upon the other and a split element lens that would merge the two and the patrons using polarized glasses for both imagery presentations.
In a changeover house, we would also get the special "red mirrors" to get more light out on the screen, plus having the silver screens helped also with 3-D presentation.
Usually, with these single film releases, the lens was also shipped with the prints under pre-arrangements by the theatre's technician to receive the correct focal length to fit the screen
In early days of CinemaScope, the cans had a big "A CinemaScope Feature" label on the back side of the cans along with the words "Safety Film" on a different label on top of the cans.
Then FOX had their unique way of labelling their releases - being the color of the film bands.
Green Band - "Regular" (Flat) print
Red Band - "CinemaScope" optical print
Black Band - "CinemaScope" mag/optical print
Blue Band - "CinemaScope" optical "foxhole" print (as of all I know, "Snow White and the Three Stooges" was the only Blue Band release ever done)
.
(Yep, the good ol' "I.A." ..member of local 463 - now a nonexistent local)
Yep, "Machine 1" and "Machine 2" - I used these terms as well.
In my terminology, I would call a booth person "booth operator" when all he did was lace and ran the movies.
If that same person can also do maintenance, repair, take initiative in figuring things out, be a little creative in making things work and not have to be told what to do, then he graduated up to the proper title of "Projectionist" - for he cared about the trade.
-Monte
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
Printer-friendly view of this topic